CWG meeting 2011-11-28

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Communication Working Group meeting on 28th November 2011


  • Richard Fairhurst
  • Harry Wood
  • Jonathan Bennett
  • Henk Hoff

(Apologies from Richard Weait)



IRC log

toffehoff Hi harry-wood 20:49 toffehoff I'm looking at 20:49 toffehoff Look's like there is not word-wrap for the IRC-log.... 20:49 harry-wood hello 20:58 harry-wood yeah I've been doing some text manipulations on some of our IRC logs 20:59 harry-wood add italics around the time at the beginning of the line, and add a
at the end of each line 20:59

harry-wood but no

harry-wood		that way it does word wrapping and also linkifies URLs			21:00
toffehoff		you mean on ?			21:01
JonathanB [] entered the room.			21:01
harry-wood		I haven't done it there no			21:01
harry-wood		but I can do			21:01
harry-wood		if you like			21:01
harry-wood		Hi JonathanB			21:02
JonathanB		Hi -- still have a bit of dinner to finish, so may be read-only for 5 mins			21:02
toffehoff		There are several line in the IRC log that are not completely visible....			21:02
toffehoff		Hi all.			21:02
RichardF		 hellooooo.			21:03
toffehoff		You all had a good hack-weekend?			21:04
harry-wood		I had a brief bit of hack weekend			21:05
RichardF		very good!			21:05
harry-wood		just the Saturday			21:05
harry-wood		You there on Sunday too Richard?			21:05
RichardF		nope, just Saturday - playing organ and being a dutiful husband on Sunday 			21:05
toffehoff		RichardW has send his apologies.			21:06
harry-wood		toffehoff: There we go:			21:07
harry-wood		I have fiddled the formatting			21:07
toffehoff		cool!			21:07
toffehoff		Thanks.			21:07
harry-wood		so that's the previous minutes			21:07
RichardF		so what do we have to talk about today over and above the actions from last week?			21:08
toffehoff		I've removed Hurricane of the CWG mailinglist.			21:08
RichardF		(I think JonathanB has something to say on social media monitoring software, maybe?)			21:08
JonathanB		I have ThinkUp to talk about, yes			21:08
JonathanB		Can I go second, please?			21:08
harry-wood		Fund raising drive comms			21:09
RichardF		yep			21:09
harry-wood		I'm kind of forgetting about moving the blog for the moment			21:10
harry-wood		will try to grab grant and talk over the technical side of that at some point			21:10
toffehoff		Do we need to talk about next years budget … or shall we do that next week?			21:10
harry-wood		does the budget for each WG start at particular time?			21:11
harry-wood		what d'you mean by "next years"			21:11
harry-wood		?			21:11
RichardF		harry-wood: let me know if there's anything I can do with helping to move the blog.			21:11
toffehoff		was not meant to be plural.			21:11
harry-wood		ah the budge over the "next year" starting from around about now?			21:12
toffehoff		Yes, so we can submit a proposal to board (via MT) to get it signed of.			21:12
toffehoff		Do we want to do anything the coming year that would need some funding?			21:13
RichardF		I'm not aware of it having been an issue thus far.			21:14
harry-wood		Yeah. My temptation is to argue mostly not.  I mean communication is free right? 			21:14
harry-wood		But maybe something like getting leaflets printed falls under our remit			21:14
RichardF		and our funding comes mostly from donations - so we shouldn't spend it if we don't have good reason.			21:14
JonathanB		It depends on what actions the board want us to take on -- some may involve advertising			21:14
toffehoff		Then it comes back to the "audacious goals".			21:15
toffehoff		I'd wanted to write down some thoughts last week. Didn't get to it.			21:16
RichardF		we could ask the board for $20k to get an ad on the front page of the NYT. Might not be quite the spirit of the request though 			21:16
toffehoff					21:16
harry-wood		If we want to scale up to audaciously behaving like big charity organisations, then we'd get into the business of printing magazines and posting people junk mail			21:16
harry-wood		but I think we're a long way off that			21:16
harry-wood		I mean I think there's a lot more structure and organisation that should/could be built around free electronic communication before we move into that realm			21:17
RichardF		over the next year, I think the most valuable thing that CWG can do is get "hearts and minds" of influential commentators - so that when people write about online maps, they mention OSM as a matter of course.			21:18
JonathanB		We're only just getting to grips with decent use of social media			21:18
RichardF		that's mostly a matter of perspiration (communicating our successes) rather than spending.			21:18
toffehoff		All good remarks.			21:18
toffehoff		Let me try to write down some thoughts of me.			21:18
toffehoff		…. later this week.			21:19
harry-wood		I imagine the OSMF might scale to employing somebody, before it scaled to printing a newsletter for example			21:19
JonathanB		OK, so are we saying we don't want/need a budget?			21:20
JonathanB		Or that we don't know what we need because we don't know what we're going to be asked to do?			21:20
harry-wood		for now let's keep in mind that we've potentially got money to spend, if we can think of something sensible around communication, to spend it on			21:21
RichardF		yes. I suggest we don't request a budget, but we know there's always the option of going back to OSMF Board and asking for money should a need arise.			21:21
toffehoff		and again, I'll try to get something on paper for the next week…..			21:22
harry-wood		Next topic?			21:22
JonathanB		Social media monitoring.			21:22
JonathanB		If you all take a look at you'll see a nifty dashboard app I was made aware of.			21:22
JonathanB		Does everyone think this is useful information, worth asking the Sysadmins to install on an OSMF server?			21:23
RichardF		that _is_ nifty.			21:23
JonathanB		It can monitor Twitter, Facebook and Google+ (but not G+ Pages *yet			21:24
JonathanB		I suspect the G+ limitation is in the API, rather than the app			21:24
harry-wood		hehe 'This weeks most discerning followers'			21:24
toffehoff		Looks very interesting.			21:25
toffehoff		… and usefull			21:25
JonathanB		Shall I go ahead and ask TomH for an official installation?			21:26
harry-wood		Do you imagine showing this to lots of people to help with comms, or as a tool just for us?			21:26
JonathanB		Initially just as a tool for us			21:26
JonathanB		You can control what's public and what's not			21:26
harry-wood		I mean if its just for us, it doesn't much matter what the bas domain name is			21:26
JonathanB		and obviously if you log in you can see more.			21:27
harry-wood		could stick on a 'dev' URL if you'd prefer not be running it on your server			21:27
harry-wood		but for a nice clean official looking OSM URL we'd have to ask TomH for an official installation			21:28
toffehoff		If it's for us, we could start of with dev.			21:28
JonathanB		I'll talk to Tom -- he may have some ideas about where to stick it.			21:29
toffehoff		I would say: go with it!			21:29
JonathanB		Cool. Will action that.			21:29
RichardF		it reminds me - is it possible to get posterous to stop posting things to Twitter?			21:30
toffehoff		Talking about stats: do we have something like an Analytics page?			21:30
RichardF		we had the new layers announcement twice on Twitter, once originally, then also when it arrived as a blog posting 			21:30
RichardF		kinda looks amateurish.			21:30
harry-wood		RichardF: sure it must be possible			21:31
harry-wood		presume it's setting within posterous account. rweait can maybe tinker with that			21:31
harry-wood		But it means we'd have to remember to tweet about blogged stuff, when there's something on the blog which has not otherwise been tweeted about 			21:32
RichardF		ok. will ask him next time I (virtually) see him!			21:32
RichardF		that's fine. we should remember to tweet anyway... and ThinkUp will help with that.			21:32
harry-wood		I'm trying to work out what the "step by step" popular post relates to			21:33
harry-wood		guess I must've missed something big! 			21:33
toffehoff		What kind of stats do we have on our blog, wiki, map etc pages?			21:34
harry-wood		ah found it!/openstreetmap/status/127312315019309056			21:34
JonathanB		harry-wood: The doc sprint book?			21:34
harry-wood		yeah			21:35
harry-wood		toffehoff : errr…   we have google analytics on the blog			21:35
JonathanB		toffehoff: Not all of those stats would tell us something useful -- the wiki, for example, isn't a web site in the typical sense.			21:35
harry-wood		but I forget how to check them			21:35
toffehoff		But it could help in finding out what the click-paths are....			21:36
toffehoff		Or other interesting stuff.			21:36
harry-wood		euck. wiki is running slow right now			21:36
JonathanB		We have to think of our remit -- knowing what people like or don't like about OSM is our bag, but some of the information like click paths is as much about usability as anything else.			21:38
harry-wood		I think the 'most visited pages' stats are disabled on the wiki, probably for performance reasons			21:38
harry-wood		Well is our remit to improve the wiki?  I think this could well come within "communications" but the big job of improving documentation…   is well… very big			21:40
JonathanB		Yes -- we as a WG "run" the social media stuff, but we can't say the same about the project sites.			21:40
harry-wood		If it's in our remit, I hope nobody's expecting us to "solve" documentation some time soon			21:41
harry-wood		but it is a problem I'm interested in.  And tracking clicks could be an interesting angle to get an idea of where to start			21:41
toffehoff		I also read that EWG is also working on the technical documentation 			21:42
harry-wood		I note that they haven't solved it yet 			21:42
harry-wood		I honestly think documentation is a big enough area to warrant a separate working group			21:43
chrisfl_ [] entered the room.			21:43
harry-wood		or a sub-team of this working group perhaps			21:43
RichardF		yes, very possibly			21:43
toffehoff		But other things I may be interested in as well: how many unique visitors, how do they come to the blog, how much time to they spend on the website, etc.			21:43
harry-wood		rweait was reporting back with analytics at each CWG meeting at one point			21:44
harry-wood		we've forgotten about it for a while			21:44
harry-wood		I sort of feel like we can mostly guess what's going to attract attention, without looking at stats			21:45
harry-wood		but maybe I'm wrong about that			21:45
toffehoff		for starters: good to know we have a G Analytics			21:45
harry-wood		yeah its on OSMF blog			21:46
toffehoff		OK, I might ask again about it in due time.			21:47
RichardF		toffehoff: you know we have Piwik now?			21:47
toffehoff		No, I don't.			21:47
RichardF		ah. it's excellent. open-source analytics not run by a competitor of ours, which helps 			21:47
toffehoff		… actually …. I think vaguely remember something about this....			21:48
toffehoff					21:48
RichardF		I don't know who admins it, but I'm sure if you were to ask Tom he'd set you up with access.			21:48
toffehoff		You have a link?			21:48
toffehoff		OK, will ask Tom.			21:48
RichardF		(we use Piwik for our work websites - can testify how good it is)			21:48
harry-wood		is it tracking visits to the main website?			21:49
RichardF		yes			21:49
harry-wood		diaries, browse pages and all			21:49
RichardF		yes, I believe so			21:49
RichardF		you'll see every page-load triggers an include from			21:49
harry-wood		was this done by OWG to inform some optimisation or something?			21:50
RichardF		I _thought_ it was a request from the board, or from Steve, or something.			21:51
harry-wood		ah ok			21:51
harry-wood		so anyway….  we have that			21:51
toffehoff		Might have come from Strategic ….			21:51
harry-wood		We can revisit the stats topic I guess			21:51
harry-wood		what's next?			21:51
harry-wood		Shall we talk about fund raising drive?			21:52
RichardF		yay!			21:52
toffehoff		Bring it on!			21:52
harry-wood		I was too busy to think about it recently			21:53
harry-wood		matt emailed with some technical details			21:53
toffehoff		reading Matt's reply			21:53
harry-wood		I suggest we bung that in a wiki page			21:53
harry-wood		just as something to link to from the blog post			21:53
harry-wood		I think the blog post is pretty much good to go			21:54
harry-wood		(in the google doc)			21:54
toffehoff		One tiny thing:			21:55
harry-wood		It's a big "news" story, so another situation where ideally we'd have some cleverly worked out procedures and lists of contacts in the press			21:55
harry-wood		we dont really have that yet			21:55
toffehoff		Since we're global organization, should we be communicating in Dollars or Euro's			21:55
toffehoff		is realizing he's asking this to a couple of UK residents ...			21:56
harry-wood		Yeah I wasn't sure about that			21:56
JonathanB		It's a fair point.			21:56
harry-wood		Where the server being ordered from? U.S. company?			21:56
RichardF		we have to be slightly careful about communicating the fund-raising appeal.			21:57
RichardF		on the one hand, we want to get the money.			21:57
RichardF		on the other, we don't want to seem parochial and small compared to GMaps etc.;			21:57
RichardF		nor do we want to give the impression that OSM is perpetually on the verge of falling over.			21:57
RichardF		so the overall message probably needs to be "this will help us grow".			21:57
JonathanB		still has nightmares about seeing Steve staring out from			21:58
RichardF		quite 			21:58
RichardF		(JonathanB: so you've not seen the redesign then?  )			21:58
harry-wood		I think we probably will seem a bit parochial and small just based on the amount we're targetting.  £15,000 is peanuts			22:00
harry-wood		I think it's kind of funny really, the impact we have on the GIS industry, and the amount we spend doing it			22:00
RichardF		oh, absolutely. we just need to be a bit careful about where we target the fundraising publicity.			22:01
harry-wood		Only way to avoid the impression, would be to not mention a target amount perhaps			22:01
harry-wood		but that'd be a bit uninspiring			22:01
RichardF		sending a press release to the Register saying "we want £15k" would mean that, next time they wrote about us, they'd describe us as "home-grown community mapping site OpenStreetMap" rather than "fast-growing GMaps challenger"			22:01
RichardF		I think we mention the target amount, we just make sure that we principally focus communications on people who have heard of OSM already and want to help it grow, rather than spreading the net too widely.			22:02
toffehoff		Maybe starting of with the "We're buying a new server" is not very strong. (especially the "a")			22:02
toffehoff		This compared to Google stating "We're building a new server farm"			22:03
JonathanB		 We phrase it more as "OSM is improving its reliability and performance"			22:03
RichardF		yes.			22:03
toffehoff		I like that JonathanB			22:03
harry-wood		ok			22:03
RichardF		"as OSM becomes more and more popular, it's doubly important that we can ensure it's always there for the people who need it" - that sort of positive message.			22:03
RichardF		spin it as "this is part of us stepping up into the big league".			22:04
harry-wood		ok. I guess I'll try to weave that in			22:04
RichardF		would buy a beer for harry-wood were it not for having just missed the chance to do that			22:05
toffehoff		RichardF: we're already in the big league 			22:05
harry-wood		We maybe need other copy, worded in alternate ways to send to press anyway			22:05
harry-wood		any ideas around this?			22:05
RichardF		toffehoff: the galacticos then 			22:05
harry-wood		RichardF: yeah. I missed out on the beers 			22:05
toffehoff		Via which channels are we communicating this?			22:06
harry-wood		Mainly the OSMF blog			22:06
harry-wood		but could fire the exact same message to the talk mailing list			22:06
toffehoff		Having a public message and an "inside" message might be a good idea.			22:06
harry-wood		right yes. the other question (which didn't get on to) is whether to "communicate transparently" this whole plan to the OSMF list some time soon			22:07
harry-wood		of course it's now in the minutes again 			22:07
harry-wood		It should be in the OWG minutes and Management Team minutes too			22:07
RichardF		should we just encourage people to read the minutes? that might garner more volunteers for the WGs, and so on			22:08
harry-wood		what? encourage people to read the minutes by never telling people about stuff? 			22:09
harry-wood		it could work!			22:09
harry-wood		I'm thinking quick blast message to the OSMF mailing list…  link to minutes….  link to techie wiki page….   Nice friendly blog post appears a few days later to kick things off			22:11
toffehoff		It's in the minutes. We could start this fundraiser of with a message on OSMF talk first.			22:11
toffehoff		And this message to osmf-talk could be a bit more in crowd message than our public "improving reliability" message.			22:12
harry-wood		yeah. Well that's what I was thinking… apart from it would pre-warning   "we're starting the fund raiser soon"			22:13
toffehoff		What would this pre-warning add??			22:14
harry-wood		I dont know			22:14
harry-wood		it's a tricky one			22:15
toffehoff		It would only start of discussions about "for what", " is it really needed" etc if you do not give the details.			22:15
harry-wood		Kai's comment was that we should pre-warn to the OSMF list because otherwise it will seem like the OSMF is running around taking decisions without consulting again			22:15
RichardF		osmf-talk is generally less hostile than talk@. it's not a huge priority but I don't think it hurts to tell people, albeit very briefly.			22:16
JonathanB		Including a caveat that a "proper" announcement is coming, so not to pre-empt it?			22:17
RichardF		yep.			22:17
harry-wood		the blog post is the nicely written friendly explanation of what and why, so there is a danger that without that, it will prompt questions/hostile reaction …..hence the dilemma			22:17
harry-wood		but yeah quick message linking to minutes?			22:17
toffehoff		so they can read *this* discussion 			22:18
harry-wood		Yes. This is all a bit circular.  (I just want to say a big "hello" to all the people reading this back in the future)			22:18
JonathanB		CWG, now being shown on Dave +1			22:19
harry-wood		hehe			22:19
harry-wood		How about…   if the wiki page has the techie details AND the full fund-raiser explanation			22:20
harry-wood		then the blog post appears a few days later, timed to coincide with the launch			22:20
toffehoff		Setting up the wiki page, refer to that in a pre-warn message "This is what we're working on"			22:21
harry-wood		yes. Pre-announcement (sort of).   We can also say to people on the OSMF-talk lis  "hold fire on shouting loudly about this plan. We'll be announcing on the blog on the day of the launch, but have a think about how you might help us to spread the word at that time"			22:23
toffehoff		Sounds like a plan.			22:24
harry-wood		OK!			22:24
harry-wood		So how about the timing of all of this?			22:24
toffehoff		Looking at time: I'd like to drop off in a couple of minutes.			22:24
harry-wood		D'you think we should kick off the fund-raising on Thursday 1st December?			22:25
toffehoff		Do we have everything ready by then?			22:26
harry-wood		yes apart from a plan to reach out to press			22:26
harry-wood		We'll just have to try and do our best with that on the day I think			22:26
toffehoff		Let's say: before Friday.			22:27
harry-wood		but that's definetely something for CWG to improve in future (have a list of press contacts etc)			22:27
toffehoff		Friday is a day where people start browsing around in preparation of the weekend.			22:27
toffehoff		So that's the time when we need to be public.			22:28
harry-wood		yes but I want to pick a fixed date now			22:28
harry-wood		to mention in an email to OSMF-talk			22:28
harry-wood		1st Dec is a nice round date			22:28
harry-wood		that was my thinking			22:29
toffehoff		Fine.			22:29
harry-wood		JonathanB RichardF  any preferences on date?			22:29
JonathanB		1st works for me			22:29
RichardF		yep			22:30
toffehoff		Shall I create a gDoc for us to collect addresses of press-contacts?			22:30
toffehoff		… or is there already something like this …. ?			22:30
harry-wood		toffehoff: sorry…  I was supposed to email that to you			22:30
toffehoff		ok			22:30
harry-wood		(we have a spreadsheet already… but with no entries in it yet)			22:31
toffehoff		Ah, right!			22:31
toffehoff		]			22:31
toffehoff		I'll put it on my todo list for this week to have a look at it.			22:31
harry-wood		So to recap… the plan is to set up a wiki page with content from Matt on techie details			22:31
harry-wood		…AND some of the nice explanation of the blog text			22:32
harry-wood		and then the post to OSMF-talk with a link to that			22:32
harry-wood		hopefully I'll get that done tomorrow			22:32
harry-wood		and the email will also mention the launch date of Thursday			22:32
harry-wood		Only other thing to check, is whether grant's OK launch on Thursday.  But I think he will be			22:33
harry-wood		He needs to setup the donation target display			22:34
harry-wood		— End of recap ---			22:34
toffehoff		what about the blog-post?			22:34
harry-wood		That'll go out on Thursday along with the actual launch			22:35
toffehoff		Does it need a bit tweaking on the message?			22:35
harry-wood		i.e. it will include a link to			22:35
harry-wood		oh… yes..... tweaking			22:35
harry-wood		need to do that too			22:35
harry-wood		I'll probably work on some of this tonight			22:36
toffehoff		Has somebody already mentioned you're awesome!			22:36
toffehoff		?			22:36
harry-wood		(you're all welcome to help!)			22:36
toffehoff		is working on getting the SotM call for venues out…..			22:37
toffehoff		Will have a look a the blog post tomorrow.			22:37
harry-wood		JonathanB RichardF:  OK?  Scream now if there's something wrong with the plan			22:38
harry-wood		otherwise fire some emails around			22:38
JonathanB		I'll certainly take a look at any text during the week, but the overall plan seems ok			22:38
toffehoff		If there's nothing else to do, I'd like to drop off			22:40
harry-wood		There's management team meeting on Wednesday eve   by which time we'll be imminently about to launch the fund-raiser			22:40
harry-wood		yes.  Time to go for me too			22:40
toffehoff		Good to announce it there as well.			22:40
harry-wood		yep			22:41
harry-wood		OK so CWG same time next week?			22:41
RichardF		fine with me			22:42
toffehoff		ok			22:42
JonathanB		Yep			22:42
toffehoff		Thanks all! Till next week.			22:43
harry-wood		bye!