CWG meeting 2011-12-19

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Revision as of 22:35, 19 December 2011 by Rweait (talk | contribs) (add CWG minutes of 19 Dec 2011)
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  • Henk Hoff
  • Richard Fairhurst
  • Jonathan Bennett
  • Richard Weait


  • Harry Wood

Also attending

  • Mikel Maron
  • Grant Slater

Old Business

  • CWG rep on MT required
  • Server fund
  • translations
  • New post notification to be improved
  • CWG 2012 budget statement


  • blog at completion of fund-raiser. Needs a volunteer.
  • Firefishy to photo new server on arrival.
  • Henk to ping potential translators for NL, ES, IT.
  • Richard F to proceed with tweet.
  • All to draft CWG 2012 plan w.r.t. Board-assigned goals.

note: IRC log partially redacted due to publication embargo

IRC log

(04:00:01 PM) toffehoff [~toffehoff@] entered the room.
(04:00:33 PM) rweait1: hello toffehoff
(04:00:39 PM) toffehoff: Hello Richard
(04:00:44 PM) rweait1: just wainting on harry-wood1, I think.
(04:00:48 PM) rweait1: waiting.
(04:00:53 PM) toffehoff: okidokie
(04:01:04 PM) rweait1: to review.
(04:01:09 PM) mkl [] entered the room.
(04:01:36 PM) toffehoff: Already two items from the Management Team for us today:
(04:02:01 PM) toffehoff: - Could CWG help with outreach to community for undecided users
(04:02:24 PM) toffehoff: - [redacted]
(04:03:10 PM) rweait1: toffehoff: context?
(04:04:06 PM) rweait1: Shall we start without harry-wood1 then?
(04:04:21 PM) rweait1: Anybody care to propose / second the previous minutes?
(04:04:23 PM) toffehoff: On the question of "how can CWG help other WG's in spreading the word"
(04:04:23 PM) rweait1:
(04:04:52 PM) toffehoff: Since it's only the chat-log....
(04:05:10 PM) rweait1: Hard to disagree with it then.
(04:05:13 PM) rweait1: :-)
(04:05:15 PM) toffehoff: :-)
(04:05:30 PM) toffehoff: Do we want an action summary at the beginning?
(04:06:01 PM) rweait1: Okay topics for today:
(04:06:10 PM) rweait1: 1) CWG rep on MT required.
(04:06:20 PM) rweait1: 2) update on fundraiser.
(04:06:29 PM) rweait1: 3) update on translations.
(04:06:39 PM) rweait1: 4) whaddaya got?
(04:07:02 PM) rweait1: 5) outreach to non-respondents
(04:07:19 PM) rweait1: 6) [redacted]
(04:07:23 PM) rweait1: anything else?
(04:07:38 PM) toffehoff: I haven't had much time to do much on CWG stuff this week.
(04:07:44 PM) rweait1: Anybody have a report on previous tasks?  
(04:08:16 PM) toffehoff: - Finding translators: same as last week.
(04:08:16 PM) rweait1: Any new press contacts?
(04:08:33 PM) toffehoff: Not from me.
(04:08:43 PM) rweait1: hey, mkl, did you want to raise anything for CWG today?
(04:09:20 PM) rweait1: I have still failed to get my two "new" press contacts into the gdoc.  
(04:09:31 PM) toffehoff: Do we want to do a holiday greeting?
(04:10:14 PM) mkl: i'm just observing
(04:10:33 PM) rweait1: Holiday greeting? Can we be topical and inclusive? 
(04:10:33 PM) toffehoff: Looks like it's up to you and me, Richard?
(04:10:43 PM) Firefishy [] entered the room.
(04:10:55 PM) mkl: the only thing, for all working groups, the management team needs a 2012 plan
(04:11:07 PM) rweait1: JonathanB and RichardF are here, just idling at the moment, I think
(04:11:23 PM) JonathanB: Yes, sorry.
(04:11:41 PM) rweait1: okay 7) 2012 plan
(04:11:51 PM) RichardF: definitely here and will say things when I have anything useful to say (first time for everything)
(04:12:02 PM) toffehoff: Let's start with 1
(04:12:04 PM) toffehoff: ?
(04:12:06 PM) rweait1: Who will volunteer to rep CWG on MT this week (WEdnesady I think)
(04:12:17 PM) toffehoff: Next MT will be Jan 4th.
(04:12:25 PM) rweait1: ah, a reprieve.
(04:12:35 PM) rweait1: same question though.  
(04:12:40 PM) rweait1: "Not it."
(04:12:40 PM) toffehoff: And it's now scheduled for once a month
(04:13:04 PM) rweait1: I say we vote, and note that harry-wood is not in the room.
(04:13:15 PM) rweait1: I nominate harry-wood
(04:13:34 PM) rweait1: Right. 
(04:13:36 PM) rweait1: :-(
(04:13:38 PM) toffehoff: who was excusing himself....
(04:13:54 PM) rweait1: on to 2) then?  
(04:14:00 PM) toffehoff: please do.
(04:14:04 PM) rweait1: I see from
(04:14:16 PM) rweait1:  that we are at 89%-ish
(04:14:31 PM) toffehoff: 1 week to go.
(04:14:48 PM) rweait1: Nice. Keep hitting our socials to spread the word.
(04:15:31 PM) rweait1: Anybody have any actions we need to take on the fund raiser?  
(04:15:55 PM) toffehoff: What are we doing when we hit 100%
(04:16:15 PM) toffehoff: Blog and that sort of things?
(04:16:47 PM) rweait1: A thank you post on the blog?  I'd think so. 
(04:16:58 PM) RichardF: yep. tell people about the server which we've already ordered, but don't phrase it that way.
(04:17:06 PM) rweait1: Maybe leave it up and watch it go to 110% or so?
(04:17:07 PM) JonathanB: Fairly standard spread of blogs and social networks.
(04:17:09 PM) RichardF: "Thanks to your donations, we've just been able to order..." etc. etc.
(04:17:39 PM) rweait1: Voluteer for that?  Needs to keep an eye on the total and post a thank you...
(04:17:49 PM) toffehoff: … and ask Firefishy to take a picture of it when it arrives 
(04:17:56 PM) rweait1: +1 !
(04:18:04 PM) JonathanB: Server porn...
(04:18:07 PM) ***Firefishy can do.
(04:18:08 PM) toffehoff: :-)
(04:18:19 PM) rweait1: 3) translations.
(04:18:19 PM) JonathanB: Unboxing video?
(04:18:22 PM) toffehoff: Thanks Firefishy
(04:18:51 PM) rweait1: four translators in place now,  German, French, Russian and Japanese. 
(04:18:58 PM) rweait1: Thank you to all of them!
(04:19:03 PM) toffehoff: +1
(04:19:24 PM) toffehoff: Haven't done much last week :-(
(04:19:27 PM) rweait1: So far we have one post in all four translations.  The new post had two of four earlier today.
(04:19:51 PM) rweait1: What should we set as our goal for languages for now?  
(04:19:58 PM) toffehoff: How can we keep the translators informed of new posts?
(04:20:03 PM) rweait1: Do we take every translation offered?  
(04:20:17 PM) rweait1: So far, I'm emailing them when I add a new post. 
(04:20:25 PM) rweait1: harry-wood is working on something better.
(04:20:30 PM) toffehoff: ok
(04:20:43 PM) toffehoff: Will ping Ivan about spanish translations.
(04:20:46 PM) JonathanB: Asking them to keep an eye on the RSS feed shouldn't be too onerous, surely?
(04:21:05 PM) rweait1: It would be awesome to get say the top 5-6 OSM languages up there. 
(04:21:23 PM) rweait1: So ES, IT, NL would be great.
(04:21:23 PM) toffehoff: Will check with Simone about the Italian versions.
(04:22:06 PM) toffehoff: NL: do we know anyone from nl? :-)
(04:22:09 PM) rweait1: Thank you toffehoff.
(04:22:26 PM) rweait1: It would have to be somebody from NL who is busy.
(04:22:29 PM) rweait1: :-)
(04:22:42 PM) toffehoff: OK: 4?
(04:22:54 PM) rweait1: Okay, new topics.  2012 plan, outreach and [redacted]

[redacted. Held substantial discussion of topic, then realized that we weren't supposed to scoop the announcement of somebody else.]

(04:28:23 PM) rweait1: So no action yet?  
(04:28:38 PM) toffehoff: Keep it on the radar.
(04:29:05 PM) rweait1: Next? 
(04:29:14 PM) rweait1: outreach to non-respondents.
(04:29:19 PM) toffehoff: Ah...
(04:29:23 PM) rweait1: toffehoff, is this from Mike as well?
(04:29:28 PM) toffehoff: yes
(04:29:52 PM) rweait1: anything  specific?
(04:30:07 PM) RichardF: it was something I suggested at the most recent MT.
(04:30:07 PM) toffehoff: Trying to reach as much people as possible.
(04:30:18 PM) toffehoff: Not everyone is reading mailing list or our blog.
(04:30:32 PM) toffehoff: Sorry RichardF
(04:31:03 PM) RichardF: the idea is to have a Twitter post (or similar) saying: "If you've ever edited OpenStreetMap, we urgently need you to sign up to our terms. Go here: .... Please RT."
(04:31:03 PM) toffehoff: Didn't really remembered who brought it up   ....
(04:31:05 PM) RichardF: or somesuch.
(04:31:45 PM) RichardF: the only thing I'm not sure about is whether we have a site 'journey' that goes "enter password/ID -> get taken straight to 'click agree please' screen -> click 'agree' -> thank you".
(04:31:53 PM) RichardF: so it might need some site work.
(04:32:02 PM) RichardF: after all, we want to make it as immediate as possible.
(04:32:28 PM) rweait1: pervisou messages have said go to  
(04:32:39 PM) rweait1: and that seems to be working fsvo working.
(04:33:02 PM) rweait1: Any suggestions that we should NOT do this?  
(04:33:29 PM) toffehoff: not from me.
(04:33:40 PM) rweait1: Volunteer to send the first tweet?  
(04:33:59 PM) toffehoff: @openstreetmap
(04:34:01 PM) JonathanB: From @openstreetmap, or personal account?
(04:34:01 PM) RichardF: I'll send it, but I think we need to check the journey first.
(04:34:17 PM) toffehoff: works.
(04:34:25 PM) RichardF: does take you to a page explaining what's happening and why we need you to do it?
(04:34:29 PM) toffehoff: brings you to the login-screen
(04:34:59 PM) rweait1: then login to terms page. with accept decline at bottom
(04:35:04 PM) RichardF: ah, ok.
(04:35:20 PM) RichardF: ideally we would have something in plain English there.
(04:35:27 PM) RichardF: (for this exercise, that is)
(04:35:30 PM) toffehoff: It has the link "Why are we doing this" on top.
(04:35:46 PM) rweait1: Anybody have an account that has not agreed yet, so they can check this?  :-)
(04:35:48 PM) toffehoff: Which is translated into several languages.
(04:35:58 PM) RichardF: yeah, we need to present, in one or two sentences, "CLICK AGREE OR THE KITTEN GETS IT, sorry, OR YOUR DATA WILL BE DELETED"
(04:36:07 PM) rweait1: okay.
(04:36:14 PM) JonathanB: rweait1: I do, actually
(04:36:15 PM) RichardF: shall I talk to Tom about this?
(04:36:21 PM) rweait1: The terms page was kept short and terms only on purpose.
(04:36:23 PM) RichardF: burn the heretic!
(04:36:28 PM) rweait1: not to confuse what was being agreed. 
(04:36:32 PM) RichardF: rweait1: yes, this is a different exercise.
(04:36:35 PM) JonathanB: Never made any edits!
(04:36:39 PM) rweait1: There are links to informal translation s of the terms 
(04:36:56 PM) rweait1: Perhaps the tweet needs two links.
(04:37:05 PM) rweait1: terms, and reason.
(04:37:05 PM) RichardF: that's not the issue. we don't need to explain what the terms are, we need to explain _why_ it is important that you, the undecided user, signs up to them.
(04:37:06 PM) RichardF: people won't click two links.
(04:37:23 PM) RichardF: can I just take this forward with Tom and stop having to explain things to you lot please? :)
(04:37:26 PM) JonathanB: Can we avoid "deleted"?
(04:37:43 PM) JonathanB: Maybe say "won't be able to use your contributions in future versions of OPenStreetmap"?
(04:37:53 PM) JonathanB: (with proper capitalisation, obviously)
(04:38:01 PM) rweait1: +1 RichardF to proceed.
(04:38:05 PM) RichardF: why use one word when 12 will do ;)
(04:38:23 PM) toffehoff: Go with it RichardF!
(04:38:27 PM) RichardF: yay, thank you :)
(04:38:45 PM) rweait1: 2012 plan and MT represnetative remain.
(04:38:55 PM) rweait1: 2012 plan ...
(04:39:23 PM) RichardF: mkl: you raised this, can you expand?
(04:39:30 PM) rweait1: What does MT need from us?
(04:39:51 PM) rweait1: We've previously discussed 2012 budget, but not finalized it. 
(04:39:56 PM) rweait1: Is this different?
(04:40:24 PM) toffehoff: I don't think that's different.
(04:41:05 PM) toffehoff: We haven't finalized our plan yet.
(04:41:37 PM) rweait1: Are we happy to say "We have no expectation to exceed 1k€ in 2012" ?
(04:42:02 PM) toffehoff: Ah, I don't think is only a budget issue.
(04:43:10 PM) RichardF: if it's different from the budget, does anyone have a link to the minutes where this was requested?
(04:43:11 PM) toffehoff: What are the things we want to achieve next year (in line with the goals/actions set by the board)
(04:44:23 PM) rweait1: We have a choice? 
(04:44:34 PM) fake_mackerski left the room (quit: Quit: fake_mackerski).
(04:44:36 PM) rweait1: I mean, the goals were set, right?
(04:45:02 PM) toffehoff: Let me rephrase: what are we going to do to make them happen?
(04:46:27 PM) rweait1: Okay.  So this can't be done top of the head in IRC.
(04:46:57 PM) rweait1: Task for this week then?  Plan exactly how OSM will get on the front page of a major newspaper in 2012
(04:47:00 PM) JonathanB: "More of what we're already doing"
(04:47:36 PM) rweait1: we already have toffehoff's presentaiton to start from
(04:47:58 PM) fake_mackerski [] entered the room.
(04:48:04 PM) toffehoff: Will try to work on it a bit more this week.
(04:48:25 PM) rweait1: Okay, we still need a volunteer to rep CWG on MT.  
(04:48:36 PM) rweait1: And we need to set next CWG meeting.  
(04:48:43 PM) rweait1: I suggest that 26 Dec will not work
(04:48:56 PM) toffehoff: Jan 2nd will?
(04:49:01 PM) rweait1: Is 02 Jan okay with everybody? 
(04:49:09 PM) rweait1: I'm okay for 02 Jan.
(04:49:20 PM) toffehoff: I think I can do as well.
(04:49:49 PM) rweait1: Let's presume harry can make it.  I'll email him
(04:50:03 PM) toffehoff: I will be at a place where they've promised to have internet access…..
(04:50:06 PM) rweait1: JonathanB, RichardF?
(04:50:21 PM) JonathanB: 80% 
(04:50:24 PM) RichardF: I can't necessarily promise I'll be here but I'll try :)
(04:50:30 PM) rweait1: Good enough for me. 
(04:50:40 PM) rweait1: timely regrets appreciated. 
(04:50:49 PM) ***RichardF nods.
(04:50:56 PM) rweait1: Somebody has to go to MT on Jan 04(?)
(04:51:26 PM) toffehoff: let's have that on the agenda first thing Jan 2nd.
(04:51:56 PM) rweait1: last one into the chat on 02 jan has to attend MT on 04 unles a volunteer lets them off the hook.
(04:51:57 PM) toffehoff: No meeting (even on alternative day) next week?
(04:52:17 PM) toffehoff: rweait1: sounds good to me :-)
(04:52:45 PM) rweait1: Is MT meetin on an alternative day next week? :-)
(04:53:07 PM) toffehoff: No, the first one is Jan 4th.
(04:53:19 PM) toffehoff: It's now set for every 1st wednesday of the month.
(04:53:29 PM) rweait1: Cool.
(04:53:45 PM) rweait1: anything else for CWG before we ring-off early?
(04:53:53 PM) toffehoff: With e-mail discussion between them if needed.
(04:53:59 PM) rweait1: of course.
(04:54:28 PM) rweait1: I'm going to pull the [redacted] stuff out of the minutes.  <--- *****
(04:54:51 PM) rweait1: log / minutes
(04:54:57 PM) rweait1: objections?
(04:55:17 PM) rweait1: Any last minute items? 
(04:55:19 PM) toffehoff: Maybe just note that [redacted]
(04:55:31 PM) rweait1: Not our business at CWG.
(04:56:15 PM) rweait1: Nothing else?  
(04:56:26 PM) rweait1: Best of the Season to all then!