Difference between revisions of "CWG meeting 2012-02-06"

From OpenStreetMap Foundation
(top headings. TODO topics)
(→‎IRC Log: formatting)
Line 13: Line 13:
 
==IRC Log==
 
==IRC Log==
   
  +
''20:59'' '''harry-wood''' : hello<br>
<pre>
 
  +
''20:59'' '''rweait1''' : hello.<br>
Monday, 23 January 2012 21:59
 
  +
''20:59'' '''JonathanB''' : Evening.<br>
toffehoff Will we go through them next week? 21:59
 
  +
''21:00'' '''toffehoff''' : Hello all.<br>
JonathanB OK 21:59
 
  +
''21:00'' '''toffehoff''' : I'm in a cafe in Salt Lake City.<br>
harry-wood see you guys 22:00
 
  +
''21:00'' '''rweait1''' : Wow. Enjoy your beer and joint. :-/<br>
toffehoff See you all next week! 22:00
 
  +
''21:00'' '''toffehoff''' : Hope this connection is better than last time I was on an "foreign" connection ;-)<br>
JonathanB Byesy-bye 22:00
 
  +
''21:01'' '''harry-wood''' : I'm in snowy London …except it mostly melted already<br>
Monday, 6 February 2012 20:57
 
  +
''21:01'' '''rweait1''' : Can I add "Ulf's Legacy" to the agenda?<br>
The topic for #osm-strategic is: Lets just replace the front page with a link to google maps 20:57
 
  +
''21:01'' '''toffehoff''' : Beer, in early afternoon …. Neuh...<br>
harry-wood hello 20:59
 
  +
''21:01'' '''toffehoff''' : user.<br>
rweait1 hello. 20:59
 
  +
''21:01'' '''toffehoff''' : Sure I meant.<br>
JonathanB Evening. 20:59
 
  +
''21:01'' '''rweait1''' : Beautiful t-shirt weather here in Toronto.<br>
toffehoff Hello all. 21:00
 
  +
''21:01'' '''rweait1''' : and a rare blue sky.<br>
toffehoff I'm in a cafe in Salt Lake City. 21:00
 
  +
''21:02'' '''rweait1''' : okay, who's starting us off?<br>
rweait1 Wow. Enjoy your beer and joint. :-/ 21:00
 
  +
''21:02'' '''RichardF''' : hellooooo<br>
toffehoff Hope this connection is better than last time I was on an "foreign" connection ;-) 21:00
 
  +
''21:02'' '''toffehoff''' : I've send you all an email about half an hour ago...<br>
harry-wood I'm in snowy London …except it mostly melted already 21:01
 
  +
''21:03'' '''harry-wood''' : ooh. Looks like we're missing IRC log from last time<br>
rweait1 Can I add "Ulf's Legacy" to the agenda? 21:01
 
  +
''21:03'' '''toffehoff''' : About the 2012 plan. If we agree, we can publish that onto the WG-page on osmf.org<br>
toffehoff Beer, in early afternoon …. Neuh... 21:01
 
  +
''21:03'' '''harry-wood''' : http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Working_Group_Minutes#Communication_Working_Group<br>
toffehoff user. 21:01
 
toffehoff Sure I meant. 21:01
+
''21:04'' '''toffehoff''' : I'm afraid I don't have it....<br>
  +
''21:04'' '''toffehoff''' : the IRC log.<br>
rweait1 Beautiful t-shirt weather here in Toronto. 21:01
 
  +
''21:04'' '''harry-wood''' : jonathanB here? Dont suppose you have that do you?<br>
rweait1 and a rare blue sky. 21:01
 
  +
''21:04'' '''JonathanB''' : I do -- gimme five to reformat and I'll post.<br>
rweait1 okay, who's starting us off? 21:02
 
  +
''21:05'' '''toffehoff''' : So, what's on today agenda?<br>
RichardF hellooooo 21:02
 
  +
''21:05'' '''harry-wood''' : coool.. Just paste it in a <pre> tag. We can sort it out later<br>
toffehoff I've send you all an email about half an hour ago... 21:02
 
  +
''21:05'' '''RichardF''' : I'll mention, just for the record:<br>
harry-wood ooh. Looks like we're missing IRC log from last time 21:03
 
  +
''21:06'' '''RichardF''' : a few months ago I discussed entering OSM for a thing in the Observer (UK newspaper) called "Britain's New Radicals"<br>
toffehoff About the 2012 plan. If we agree, we can publish that onto the WG-page on osmf.org 21:03
 
  +
''21:06'' '''RichardF''' : about organisations that are changing the country and the world for the better<br>
harry-wood http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Working_Group_Minutes#Communication_Working_Group 21:03
 
  +
''21:06'' '''RichardF''' : and CWG people said "sure, just do it"<br>
toffehoff I'm afraid I don't have it.... 21:04
 
  +
''21:06'' '''RichardF''' : anyway, I heard from them this week and we've been listed as one of the 50<br>
toffehoff the IRC log. 21:04
 
  +
''21:06'' '''RichardF''' : so we get a nice mention in the Observer and everything<br>
harry-wood jonathanB here? Dont suppose you have that do you? 21:04
 
  +
''21:06'' '''harry-wood''' : cool<br>
JonathanB I do -- gimme five to reformat and I'll post. 21:04
 
  +
''21:06'' '''toffehoff''' : :-)<br>
toffehoff So, what's on today agenda? 21:05
 
  +
''21:06'' '''rweait1''' : Well done.<br>
harry-wood coool.. Just paste it in a <pre> tag. We can sort it out later 21:05
 
  +
''21:06'' '''harry-wood''' : anythng we need to do?<br>
RichardF I'll mention, just for the record: 21:05
 
  +
''21:06'' '''RichardF''' : could possibly do with some images to send them if anyone has any suggestions!<br>
RichardF a few months ago I discussed entering OSM for a thing in the Observer (UK newspaper) called "Britain's New Radicals" 21:06
 
  +
''21:07'' '''harry-wood''' : Maybe the one of TomH in reindeer antlers?<br>
RichardF about organisations that are changing the country and the world for the better 21:06
 
  +
''21:07'' '''RichardF''' : hmmmm ;)<br>
RichardF and CWG people said "sure, just do it" 21:06
 
  +
''21:07'' '''harry-wood''' : …no maybe not<br>
RichardF anyway, I heard from them this week and we've been listed as one of the 50 21:06
 
  +
''21:08'' '''RichardF''' : well, I can probably find one anyway<br>
RichardF so we get a nice mention in the Observer and everything 21:06
 
  +
''21:08'' '''toffehoff''' : Maybe some of the featured images of the wiki?<br>
harry-wood cool 21:06
 
  +
''21:08'' '''harry-wood''' : an image of the map<br>
toffehoff :-) 21:06
 
  +
''21:08'' '''RichardF''' : there's a nice one by a friend of Mikel on the Press pages which I'll ask him if we can use<br>
rweait1 Well done. 21:06
 
  +
''21:09'' '''Blackadder''' : Did you find a log for last time? I might have it<br>
harry-wood anythng we need to do? 21:06
 
  +
''21:09'' '''harry-wood''' : ooh hello Blackadder<br>
RichardF could possibly do with some images to send them if anyone has any suggestions! 21:06
 
  +
''21:09'' '''Blackadder''' : hi, was just passing ;-)<br>
harry-wood Maybe the one of TomH in reindeer antlers? 21:07
 
  +
''21:09'' '''harry-wood''' : think JonathanB has it<br>
RichardF hmmmm ;) 21:07
 
  +
''21:10'' '''Blackadder''' : cool. ping me if needed<br>
harry-wood …no maybe not 21:07
 
  +
''21:10'' '''JonathanB''' : I do -- rough version now at http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/CWG_meeting_2012-01-23<br>
RichardF well, I can probably find one anyway 21:08
 
  +
''21:10'' '''harry-wood''' : Next on the agenda...<br>
toffehoff Maybe some of the featured images of the wiki? 21:08
 
harry-wood an image of the map 21:08
+
''21:10'' '''harry-wood''' : What the plan for the plan?<br>
  +
''21:10'' '''harry-wood''' : Do we need to write more of a plan than that? Or those bullet points are enough?<br>
RichardF there's a nice one by a friend of Mikel on the Press pages which I'll ask him if we can use 21:08
 
  +
''21:11'' '''harry-wood''' : (see henk's email half an hour ago)<br>
Blackadder Did you find a log for last time? I might have it 21:09
 
  +
''21:11'' '''rweait1''' : Has Henk swapped Dutch for Arabic to lighten his load?<br>
harry-wood ooh hello Blackadder 21:09
 
  +
''21:12'' '''toffehoff''' : :-)<br>
Blackadder hi, was just passing ;-) 21:09
 
  +
''21:12'' '''rweait1''' : Do we have a lead on an Arabic-speaking contributor?<br>
harry-wood think JonathanB has it 21:09
 
  +
''21:12'' '''toffehoff''' : I remember we had a discussion a couple of weeks ago about the languages would like to have.<br>
Blackadder cool. ping me if needed 21:10
 
  +
''21:12'' '''toffehoff''' : Arabic was one of our "challenges"<br>
JonathanB I do -- rough version now at http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/CWG_meeting_2012-01-23 21:10
 
  +
''21:13'' '''rweait1''' : I don't have any objection to those four points.<br>
harry-wood Next on the agenda... 21:10
 
  +
''21:14'' '''toffehoff''' : The only thing we may want to add is if we expect to spend any budget on these items.<br>
harry-wood What the plan for the plan? 21:10
 
  +
''21:16'' '''rweait1''' : toffehoff, I can't see why we would. Would we hire a translator for a community that isn't interested enough to translate for themselves?<br>
harry-wood Do we need to write more of a plan than that? Or those bullet points are enough? 21:10
 
  +
''21:16'' '''toffehoff''' : If we do not expect to spend any budget, that's ok. If we do, it may be good to mention it.<br>
harry-wood (see henk's email half an hour ago) 21:11
 
  +
''21:17'' '''harry-wood''' : Maybe "expanding the number of active CWG members" doesn't need to be one of the bullet points. It's kind of a meta-plan. We need more people to some other things we're planning<br>
rweait1 Has Henk swapped Dutch for Arabic to lighten his load? 21:11
 
  +
''21:17'' '''harry-wood''' : Taking on more communication challenges within the community, such as work on documentation<br>
toffehoff :-) 21:12
 
  +
''21:17'' '''RichardF''' : +1<br>
rweait1 Do we have a lead on an Arabic-speaking contributor? 21:12
 
  +
''21:18'' '''toffehoff''' : What kind of documentation are we talking about?<br>
toffehoff I remember we had a discussion a couple of weeks ago about the languages would like to have. 21:12
 
  +
''21:18'' '''JonathanB''' : Yes -- "more people" is like "more money"<br>
toffehoff Arabic was one of our "challenges" 21:12
 
  +
''21:18'' '''RichardF''' : toffehoff: simplifying common aspects of OSM in the same way that switch2osm simplifies getting maps onto your own site<br>
rweait1 I don't have any objection to those four points. 21:13
 
  +
''21:19'' '''toffehoff''' : I think the Engineering WG also has a target to make more technical documention available.<br>
toffehoff The only thing we may want to add is if we expect to spend any budget on these items. 21:14
 
  +
''21:19'' '''JonathanB''' : ...and that's something we can offer to help with<br>
rweait1 toffehoff, I can't see why we would. Would we hire a translator for a community that isn't interested enough to translate for themselves? 21:16
 
  +
''21:19'' '''toffehoff''' : Fine, just so we do not duplicate things....<br>
toffehoff If we do not expect to spend any budget, that's ok. If we do, it may be good to mention it. 21:16
 
  +
''21:19'' '''harry-wood''' : documentation may mean new websites explaining things, or improving existing documents on the wiki. But also some grand unified plan for different attempts at documentation<br>
harry-wood Maybe "expanding the number of active CWG members" doesn't need to be one of the bullet points. It's kind of a meta-plan. We need more people to some other things we're planning 21:17
 
  +
''21:20'' '''JonathanB''' : (full Minutes up at http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/CWG_meeting_2012-01-23 now)<br>
harry-wood "Taking on more communication challenges within the community, such as work on documentation" 21:17
 
  +
''21:20'' '''rweait1''' : no objections to any of that from me. <br>
RichardF +1 21:17
 
  +
''21:20'' '''JonathanB''' : What we seem to be missing is a grand front page to *all* OSM documentation<br>
toffehoff What kind of documentation are we talking about? 21:18
 
  +
''21:21'' '''harry-wood''' : Yes. And trying scope out the different docs so that it's clear where to go for what<br>
JonathanB Yes -- "more people" is like "more money" 21:18
 
  +
''21:21'' '''toffehoff''' : Sounds great.<br>
RichardF toffehoff: simplifying common aspects of OSM in the same way that switch2osm simplifies getting maps onto your own site 21:18
 
  +
''21:22'' '''rweait1''' : anything else to add or remove from that plan, or can we move on?<br>
toffehoff I think the Engineering WG also has a target to make more technical documention available. 21:19
 
  +
''21:23'' '''toffehoff''' : So: remove the # of members and add the documentation item?<br>
JonathanB ...and that's something we can offer to help with 21:19
 
  +
''21:23'' '''JonathanB''' : +1 to that<br>
toffehoff Fine, just so we do not duplicate things.... 21:19
 
  +
''21:24'' '''RichardF''' : yep<br>
harry-wood "documentation" may mean new websites explaining things, or improving existing documents on the wiki. But also some grand unified plan for different attempts at documentation 21:19
 
  +
''21:24'' '''toffehoff''' : OK, will send this around on management@ and put it on our page on osmf.org<br>
JonathanB (full Minutes up at http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/CWG_meeting_2012-01-23 now) 21:20
 
  +
''21:25'' '''toffehoff''' : Next?<br>
rweait1 no objections to any of that from me. 21:20
 
  +
''21:25'' '''toffehoff''' : Ulf's legacy?<br>
JonathanB What we seem to be missing is a grand front page to *all* OSM documentation 21:20
 
  +
''21:25'' '''rweait1''' : Right.<br>
harry-wood Yes. And trying scope out the different docs so that it's clear where to go for what 21:21
 
  +
''21:25'' '''rweait1''' : Background<br>
toffehoff Sounds great. 21:21
 
  +
''21:26'' '''toffehoff''' : See also mail of rweait1 @ Jan 29th.<br>
rweait1 anything else to add or remove from that plan, or can we move on? 21:22
 
  +
''21:26'' '''rweait1''' : Ulf's family have asked that OSMF receive funds from those who wish to honour Ulf, as a way to continue Ulf's good work and interest in OSM.<br>
toffehoff So: remove the # of members and add the documentation item? 21:23
 
  +
''21:26'' '''rweait1''' : Board appears to be fine with CWG taking lead on this.<br>
JonathanB +1 to that 21:23
 
  +
''21:27'' '''rweait1''' : So we need to 1) set up to recive the funds 2) announce<br>
RichardF yep 21:24
 
  +
''21:27'' '''rweait1''' : and 3) decide what to do with the funds.<br>
toffehoff OK, will send this around on management@ and put it on our page on osmf.org 21:24
 
  +
''21:27'' '''rweait1''' : as a suitable legacy.<br>
toffehoff Next? 21:25
 
  +
''21:27'' '''rweait1''' : Sound good?<br>
toffehoff Ulf's legacy? 21:25
 
  +
''21:28'' '''harry-wood''' : yes.<br>
rweait1 Right. 21:25
 
  +
''21:28'' '''harry-wood''' : We need to be set up to receive donations from germany… which seemed to be a problem in the past<br>
rweait1 Background 21:25
 
  +
''21:28'' '''rweait1''' : receiving Euro transfers is now set up and on the wiki.<br>
toffehoff See also mail of rweait1 @ Jan 29th. 21:26
 
  +
''21:29'' '''harry-wood''' : Cool. Does that solve it?<br>
rweait1 Ulf's family have asked that OSMF receive funds from those who wish to honour Ulf, as a way to continue Ulf's good work and interest in OSM. 21:26
 
  +
''21:29'' '''rweait1''' : any memo field with "Ulf Moeller" would make the contribution trackable.<br>
rweait1 Board appears to be fine with CWG taking lead on this. 21:26
 
  +
''21:29'' '''rweait1''' : comments are already included in paypal payments.<br>
rweait1 So we need to 1) set up to recive the funds 2) announce 21:27
 
  +
''21:29'' '''toffehoff''' : We could also make a special paypal donation button<br>
rweait1 and 3) decide what to do with the funds. 21:27
 
  +
''21:30'' '''rweait1''' : I think the tricky part is "what to do with the fund."<br>
rweait1 as a suitable legacy. 21:27
 
  +
''21:30'' '''toffehoff''' : which automatically adds a remark.<br>
rweait1 Sound good? 21:27
 
  +
''21:30'' '''harry-wood''' : 2) announce <— No problems with that. I think we're getting quite good a announcing things<br>
harry-wood yes. 21:28
 
harry-wood We need to be set up to receive donations from germany… which seemed to be a problem in the past 21:28
+
''21:31'' '''harry-wood''' : We'd need to decide how to announce it exactly. Depends what we're announcing.<br>
  +
''21:31'' '''rweait1''' : we could consume the fund all at once to do something "big", or a bit at a time, over time, to do something smaller, but for several years...<br>
rweait1 receiving Euro transfers is now set up and on the wiki. 21:28
 
  +
''21:31'' '''toffehoff''' : It would be good to have a rough idea on what we're going to do with it.<br>
harry-wood Cool. Does that solve it? 21:29
 
  +
''21:31'' '''rweait1''' : suggestions have been, 1) sponsor attendee for SotM.<br>
rweait1 any memo field with "Ulf Moeller" would make the contribution trackable. 21:29
 
  +
''21:31'' '''JonathanB''' : Something, say, annual would provide a longer legacy<br>
rweait1 comments are already included in paypal payments. 21:29
 
  +
''21:32'' '''toffehoff''' : JonathanB: +1<br>
toffehoff We could also make a special paypal donation button 21:29
 
  +
''21:32'' '''rweait1''' : 2) donate GPS(es) to someone, each year<br>
rweait1 I think the tricky part is "what to do with the fund." 21:30
 
  +
''21:33'' '''rweait1''' : Right. so if the fund is 2-3k, can it bear interest, and buy a GPSr (or two) each year?<br>
toffehoff which automatically adds a remark. 21:30
 
  +
''21:33'' '''toffehoff''' : When we're talking about donating GPS-es, we could rename the maps4all project ....<br>
harry-wood 2) announce <— No problems with that. I think we're getting quite good a announcing things 21:30
 
  +
''21:33'' '''rweait1''' : Perhaps award those to German Cyclist mappers?<br>
harry-wood We'd need to decide how to announce it exactly. Depends what we're announcing. 21:31
 
  +
''21:33'' '''rweait1''' : you mean GPS2Go?<br>
rweait1 we could consume the fund all at once to do something "big", or a bit at a time, over time, to do something smaller, but for several years... 21:31
 
  +
''21:34'' '''harry-wood''' : maps3all is kind of the new name for GPS2go I think<br>
toffehoff It would be good to have a rough idea on what we're going to do with it. 21:31
 
  +
''21:34'' '''toffehoff''' : Yes, the plan is to revamp it under the maps4all name.<br>
rweait1 suggestions have been, 1) sponsor attendee for SotM. 21:31
 
  +
''21:34'' '''harry-wood''' : which is well underway<br>
JonathanB Something, say, annual would provide a longer legacy 21:31
 
  +
''21:34'' '''harry-wood''' : so probably best not to suggest renaming it again :-)<br>
toffehoff JonathanB: +1 21:32
 
  +
''21:35'' '''rweait1''' : I think we want to come to a decision on this fairly soon. And I think we want more ideasfrom which to choose.<br>
rweait1 2) donate GPS(es) to someone, each year 21:32
 
  +
''21:35'' '''toffehoff''' : If we want to do it, we need to be quick.<br>
rweait1 Right. so if the fund is 2-3k, can it bear interest, and buy a GPSr (or two) each year? 21:33
 
  +
''21:35'' '''harry-wood''' : I like the sponsor SOTM attendee idea<br>
toffehoff When we're talking about donating GPS-es, we could rename the maps4all project .... 21:33
 
  +
''21:35'' '''harry-wood''' : how to pick a winner?<br>
rweait1 Perhaps award those to German Cyclist mappers? 21:33
 
  +
''21:35'' '''JonathanB''' : That could eat up 1000s per year<br>
rweait1 you mean GPS2Go? 21:33
 
  +
''21:36'' '''harry-wood''' : yes it could be expensive<br>
harry-wood maps3all is kind of the new name for GPS2go I think 21:34
 
  +
''21:36'' '''toffehoff''' : I like the gps-es a bit more, since it's more scalable.<br>
toffehoff Yes, the plan is to revamp it under the maps4all name. 21:34
 
  +
''21:36'' '''RichardF''' : I like the idea of using it to encourage real on-the-ground mapping.<br>
harry-wood which is well underway 21:34
 
  +
''21:36'' '''RichardF''' : We don't do that enough.<br>
harry-wood so probably best not to suggest renaming it again :-) 21:34
 
  +
''21:36'' '''rweait1''' : RichardF +1<br>
rweait1 I think we want to come to a decision on this fairly soon. And I think we want more ideasfrom which to choose. 21:35
 
  +
''21:36'' '''RichardF''' : so, either GPSes or some form of mapping prize.<br>
toffehoff If we want to do it, we need to be quick. 21:35
 
  +
''21:36'' '''rweait1''' : That strikes me as Ulf, to a "T"<br>
harry-wood I like the sponsor SOTM attendee idea 21:35
 
  +
''21:37'' '''rweait1''' : The photos I've seen of him, are Ulf with his bike and a GPS. <br>
harry-wood how to pick a winner? 21:35
 
  +
''21:37'' '''toffehoff''' : Pardon my French: "to a 'T'" ?<br>
JonathanB That could eat up 1000s per year 21:35
 
  +
''21:37'' '''rweait1''' : Do we give away GPSrs, or a GPSr and a bike?<br>
harry-wood yes it could be expensive 21:36
 
  +
''21:37'' '''rweait1''' : toffehoff: To A "T". (A perfect Match)<br>
toffehoff I like the gps-es a bit more, since it's more scalable. 21:36
 
  +
''21:37'' '''rweait1''' : :-)<br>
RichardF I like the idea of using it to encourage real on-the-ground mapping. 21:36
 
  +
''21:38'' '''toffehoff''' : ah…. :-)<br>
RichardF We don't do that enough. 21:36
 
  +
''21:38'' '''rweait1''' : picking a winner. Hard problem again.<br>
rweait1 RichardF +1 21:36
 
  +
''21:38'' '''rweait1''' : Accept nominations? <br>
RichardF so, either GPSes or some form of mapping prize. 21:36
 
  +
''21:38'' '''toffehoff''' : What are the criteria?<br>
rweait1 That strikes me as Ulf, to a "T" 21:36
 
  +
''21:38'' '''rweait1''' : random chance from those who map a cycleway?<br>
rweait1 The photos I've seen of him, are Ulf with his bike and a GPS. 21:37
 
  +
''21:39'' '''RichardF''' : accept nominations. that rewards community, too.<br>
toffehoff Pardon my French: "to a 'T'" ? 21:37
 
  +
''21:39'' '''RichardF''' : i.e. people have to like you :)<br>
rweait1 Do we give away GPSrs, or a GPSr and a bike? 21:37
 
  +
''21:39'' '''toffehoff''' : RichardF: _1<br>
rweait1 toffehoff: To A "T". (A perfect Match) 21:37
 
  +
''21:39'' '''toffehoff''' : +1<br>
rweait1 :-) 21:37
 
  +
''21:40'' '''rweait1''' : Okay, before we get too deep in this, do we have other topics for today?<br>
toffehoff ah…. :-) 21:38
 
  +
''21:40'' '''toffehoff''' : Any communication we need to help with relating the license change?<br>
rweait1 picking a winner. Hard problem again. 21:38
 
  +
''21:40'' '''rweait1''' : translations for the post on blog...<br>
rweait1 Accept nominations? 21:38
 
  +
''21:41'' '''harry-wood''' : yes that need translating<br>
toffehoff What are the criteria? 21:38
 
  +
''21:41'' '''rweait1''' : harry-wood shall I send a note to the translators?<br>
rweait1 random chance from those who map a cycleway? 21:38
 
  +
''21:41'' '''harry-wood''' : athough confusingly it can also be translated on the wiki<br>
RichardF accept nominations. that rewards community, too. 21:39
 
  +
''21:42'' '''rweait1''' : anything else, or should we continue with Ulf?<br>
RichardF i.e. people have to like you :) 21:39
 
  +
''21:42'' '''harry-wood''' : if somebody posts a translation on the blog we should make sure it gets copied to the wiki quickly or vice versa<br>
toffehoff RichardF: _1 21:39
 
  +
''21:42'' '''harry-wood''' : what could go wrong ?:-)<br>
toffehoff +1 21:39
 
  +
''21:42'' '''harry-wood''' : I think mostly we could do with pinging our normal translating folks yes<br>
rweait1 Okay, before we get too deep in this, do we have other topics for today? 21:40
 
  +
''21:43'' '''rweait1''' : I will do that tonight.<br>
toffehoff Any communication we need to help with relating the license change? 21:40
 
  +
''21:43'' '''toffehoff''' : Anything we need to do with switch2osm?<br>
rweait1 translations for the post on blog... 21:40
 
harry-wood yes that need translating 21:41
+
''21:43'' '''harry-wood''' : RichardF what d'you think?<br>
  +
''21:43'' '''RichardF''' : nope, don't think so<br>
rweait1 harry-wood shall I send a note to the translators? 21:41
 
  +
''21:43'' '''harry-wood''' : looking good<br>
harry-wood athough confusingly it can also be translated on the wiki 21:41
 
  +
''21:44'' '''RichardF''' : I'll set up some translation infrastructure for it in due course but am waiting for it to calm down first :)<br>
rweait1 anything else, or should we continue with Ulf? 21:42
 
  +
''21:44'' '''harry-wood''' : Aforo mamoemoroere blasssrssson was pointing out that we could have a page on google maps javascript & osm tiles<br>
harry-wood if somebody posts a translation on the blog we should make sure it gets copied to the wiki quickly or vice versa 21:42
 
  +
''21:44'' '''harry-wood''' : ^my attempt at spelling an icelandic name<br>
harry-wood what could go wrong ?:-) 21:42
 
  +
''21:45'' '''rweait1''' : What about an "Ulf Moeller Memorial Mapper of the Year Award" with no attached prize. Just recognition.<br>
harry-wood I think mostly we could do with pinging our normal translating folks yes 21:42
 
  +
''21:46'' '''harry-wood''' : yeah. that doesn't solve the what to spend the money on question<br>
rweait1 I will do that tonight. 21:43
 
  +
''21:46'' '''harry-wood''' : but maybe the money could just go to OSMF …boring though that is<br>
toffehoff Anything we need to do with switch2osm? 21:43
 
  +
''21:46'' '''rweait1''' : something like: "for recognition of excellence in mapping cycle infrastructure" <br>
harry-wood RichardF what d'you think? 21:43
 
  +
''21:46'' '''harry-wood''' : hehe<br>
RichardF nope, don't think so 21:43
 
  +
''21:46'' '''rweait1''' : we coudl even add the GPS to that until we run out of GPS money.<br>
harry-wood looking good 21:43
 
  +
''21:47'' '''RichardF''' : rweait1: good idea<br>
RichardF I'll set up some translation infrastructure for it in due course but am waiting for it to calm down first :) 21:44
 
  +
''21:47'' '''rweait1''' : or "cycle infrastructure and local community."<br>
harry-wood Aforo mamoemoroere blasssrssson was pointing out that we could have a page on google maps javascript & osm tiles 21:44
 
  +
''21:47'' '''toffehoff''' : Good idea, but the name needs tweaking, so it also hints to cycle-infrastructure.<br>
harry-wood ^my attempt at spelling an icelandic name 21:44
 
  +
''21:47'' '''rweait1''' : I'd like to propose that the Foundation chip in an amount for the fund.<br>
rweait1 What about an "Ulf Moeller Memorial Mapper of the Year Award" with no attached prize. Just recognition. 21:45
 
  +
''21:48'' '''rweait1''' : toffehoff, sure.<br>
harry-wood yeah. that doesn't solve the what to spend the money on question 21:46
 
  +
''21:48'' '''rweait1''' : The CyclePath Award. :-)<br>
harry-wood but maybe the money could just go to OSMF …boring though that is 21:46
 
  +
''21:48'' '''rweait1''' : (not serious)<br>
rweait1 something like: "for recognition of excellence in mapping cycle infrastructure" 21:46
 
  +
''21:49'' '''toffehoff''' : The Off-The-Beaten-Track award.<br>
harry-wood hehe 21:46
 
  +
''21:49'' '''harry-wood''' : The "highway=cycleway or is it cycle=yes" award<br>
rweait1 we coudl even add the GPS to that until we run out of GPS money. 21:46
 
  +
''21:49'' '''rweait1''' : Or leave it as "The Ulf Moeller Memorial Award" and leave the details subject to refinement over time...<br>
RichardF rweait1: good idea 21:47
 
  +
''21:50'' '''toffehoff''' : We could leave it like that for now.<br>
rweait1 or "cycle infrastructure and local community." 21:47
 
  +
''21:50'' '''toffehoff''' : More interesting are the criteria for the award.<br>
toffehoff Good idea, but the name needs tweaking, so it also hints to cycle-infrastructure. 21:47
 
rweait1 I'd like to propose that the Foundation chip in an amount for the fund. 21:47
+
''21:51'' '''rweait1''' : Do we leave criteria and judging in the hands of CWG as well?<br>
  +
''21:51'' '''toffehoff''' : I think we can agree on it being a nomination-based award.<br>
rweait1 toffehoff, sure. 21:48
 
  +
''21:51'' '''toffehoff''' : That's a good question...<br>
rweait1 The CyclePath Award. :-) 21:48
 
  +
''21:51'' '''harry-wood''' : unless we don't get enough nominations<br>
rweait1 (not serious) 21:48
 
  +
''21:51'' '''toffehoff''' : I didn't say who needs to nominate ;-)<br>
toffehoff The Off-The-Beaten-Track award. 21:49
 
  +
''21:52'' '''rweait1''' : maybe email ideas this week and I'll provide a summary for next week?<br>
harry-wood The "highway=cycleway or is it cycle=yes" award 21:49
 
  +
''21:52'' '''harry-wood''' : Also what if we get an embarrassing amount of money to spend on an award?<br>
rweait1 Or leave it as "The Ulf Moeller Memorial Award" and leave the details subject to refinement over time... 21:49
 
toffehoff We could leave it like that for now. 21:50
+
''21:52'' '''toffehoff''' : We could let the community vote on the winner.<br>
  +
''21:52'' '''rweait1''' : With the goal of hiving this done and ready to annoucemnext week.<br>
toffehoff More interesting are the criteria for the award. 21:50
 
  +
''21:52'' '''rweait1''' : harry-wood. That could happen.<br>
rweait1 Do we leave criteria and judging in the hands of CWG as well? 21:51
 
  +
''21:52'' '''rweait1''' : Include a bike in the first award?<br>
toffehoff I think we can agree on it being a nomination-based award. 21:51
 
  +
''21:53'' '''rweait1''' : Buy a server for cycle map tiles?<br>
toffehoff That's a good question... 21:51
 
  +
''21:53'' '''JonathanB''' : We could approach a bike manufacturer for the first year<br>
harry-wood unless we don't get enough nominations 21:51
 
  +
''21:53'' '''rweait1''' : Oh yes, we could<br>
toffehoff I didn't say who needs to nominate ;-) 21:51
 
  +
''21:53'' '''rweait1''' : +1<br>
rweait1 maybe email ideas this week and I'll provide a summary for next week? 21:52
 
  +
''21:53'' '''toffehoff''' : +1<br>
harry-wood Also what if we get an embarrassing amount of money to spend on an award? 21:52
 
  +
''21:53'' '''rweait1''' : and thne buy a bike for the second year.<br>
toffehoff We could let the community vote on the winner. 21:52
 
  +
''21:53'' '''rweait1''' : etc.<br>
rweait1 With the goal of hiving this done and ready to annoucemnext week. 21:52
 
  +
''21:53'' '''rweait1''' : One problem at a time I guess.<br>
rweait1 harry-wood. That could happen. 21:52
 
  +
''21:54'' '''toffehoff''' : :-)<br>
rweait1 Include a bike in the first award? 21:52
 
  +
''21:54'' '''toffehoff''' : It's getting near the hour.<br>
rweait1 Buy a server for cycle map tiles? 21:53
 
  +
''21:54'' '''rweait1''' : Thanks for indulging me.<br>
JonathanB We could approach a bike manufacturer for the first year 21:53
 
  +
''21:54'' '''harry-wood''' : so if we have get an embarrassing amount of money then it goes to next years prize fund<br>
rweait1 Oh yes, we could 21:53
 
  +
''21:54'' '''rweait1''' : we can adapt. <br>
rweait1 +1 21:53
 
  +
''21:54'' '''toffehoff''' : I would be great if we can make something lasting out of it.<br>
toffehoff +1 21:53
 
  +
''21:55'' '''RichardF''' : a bike is a really great idea.<br>
rweait1 and thne buy a bike for the second year. 21:53
 
  +
''21:55'' '''rweait1''' : We could make an annual donation to a victims of violence fund or something.<br>
rweait1 etc. 21:53
 
  +
''21:55'' '''rweait1''' : Provide map consulting for a victim shelter.<br>
rweait1 One problem at a time I guess. 21:53
 
  +
''21:55'' '''toffehoff''' : Let's see how much we end up with first....<br>
toffehoff :-) 21:54
 
  +
''21:55'' '''rweait1''' : Okay. Send me brainstorms this week.<br>
toffehoff It's getting near the hour. 21:54
 
  +
''21:56'' '''rweait1''' : and bike manufacturers.<br>
rweait1 Thanks for indulging me. 21:54
 
  +
''21:56'' '''rweait1''' : anything else?<br>
harry-wood so if we have get an embarrassing amount of money then it goes to next years prize fund 21:54
 
  +
''21:56'' '''harry-wood''' : sounds like a plan<br>
rweait1 we can adapt. 21:54
 
  +
''21:56'' '''harry-wood''' : I went to management team meeting on Wednesday<br>
toffehoff I would be great if we can make something lasting out of it. 21:54
 
  +
''21:57'' '''harry-wood''' : we discussed one topic only. License change and the DB "rebuild" process<br>
RichardF a bike is a really great idea. 21:55
 
  +
''21:58'' '''harry-wood''' : There's a rebuild mailing list where technicalities of a the DB rebuild are being discussed.<br>
rweait1 We could make an annual donation to a victims of violence fund or something. 21:55
 
  +
''21:58'' '''rweait1''' : How'd that go?<br>
rweait1 Provide map consulting for a victim shelter. 21:55
 
  +
''21:58'' '''harry-wood''' : This is super-important and on the critical path for license changeover on april 1st<br>
toffehoff Let's see how much we end up with first.... 21:55
 
  +
''21:59'' '''harry-wood''' : but it's not particularly helpful to shout about that mailing list far and wide and try to get lots of people on there.<br>
rweait1 Okay. Send me brainstorms this week. 21:55
 
  +
''22:00'' '''harry-wood''' : The communication challenge is mainly this contact & re-map campaign<br>
rweait1 and bike manufacturers. 21:56
 
  +
''22:01'' '''harry-wood''' : There was some lively discussion about whether or not april 1st should be regarded as a solid deadline.<br>
rweait1 anything else? 21:56
 
  +
''22:01'' '''rweait1''' : what were the arguments for and against?<br>
harry-wood sounds like a plan 21:56
 
  +
''22:02'' '''harry-wood''' : Frederick is very involved in the technicalities and was keen to say that the job should be done right, and if this mean taking a month or two longer, then so be it<br>
harry-wood I went to management team meeting on Wednesday 21:56
 
  +
''22:03'' '''harry-wood''' : SteveC said …some things which wound up Frederick<br>
harry-wood we discussed one topic only. License change and the DB "rebuild" process 21:57
 
  +
''22:04'' '''rweait1''' : oh really?<br>
harry-wood There's a rebuild mailing list where technicalities of a the DB rebuild are being discussed. 21:58
 
  +
''22:04'' '''harry-wood''' : suffice to say there will certainly be some people who regard it as a major failure if we do not hit the April 1st deadline<br>
rweait1 How'd that go? 21:58
 
  +
''22:04'' '''JonathanB''' : For what reason?<br>
harry-wood This is super-important and on the critical path for license changeover on april 1st 21:58
 
  +
''22:04'' '''harry-wood''' : major failure of the board, the foundation, and of OpenStreetMap (from an outsiders perspective)<br>
harry-wood but it's not particularly helpful to shout about that mailing list far and wide and try to get lots of people on there. 21:59
 
  +
''22:04'' '''rweait1''' : hmm, I don't recall that from any discussion at LWG. We all just want it done right.<br>
harry-wood The communication challenge is mainly this contact & re-map campaign 22:00
 
  +
''22:05'' '''RichardF''' : I think we'll hit it.<br>
harry-wood There was some lively discussion about whether or not april 1st should be regarded as a solid deadline. 22:01
 
  +
''22:05'' '''rweait1''' : How so from outsiders? What do outsiders know about it?<br>
rweait1 what were the arguments for and against? 22:01
 
  +
''22:05'' '''toffehoff''' : They can't get anything done "They are an unreliable group" that kind of thing.<br>
harry-wood Frederick is very involved in the technicalities and was keen to say that the job should be done right, and if this mean taking a month or two longer, then so be it 22:02
 
  +
''22:05'' '''JonathanB''' : rweait1: +1<br>
harry-wood SteveC said …some things which wound up Frederick 22:03
 
  +
''22:05'' '''rweait1''' : The license change is such a tiny, arcane bit of nonsense. <br>
rweait1 oh really? 22:04
 
  +
''22:05'' '''rweait1''' : It's important to US, but outsiders?!?!<br>
harry-wood suffice to say there will certainly be some people who regard it as a major failure if we do not hit the April 1st deadline 22:04
 
  +
''22:05'' '''harry-wood''' : Well there's a fun debate to have there certainly<br>
JonathanB For what reason? 22:04
 
  +
''22:05'' '''rweait1''' : Every time I speak to groups about the license, they glaze over with indifference.<br>
harry-wood major failure of the board, the foundation, and of OpenStreetMap (from an outsiders perspective) 22:04
 
  +
''22:06'' '''rweait1''' : Who, outside of OSM(F) could possibly care?<br>
rweait1 hmm, I don't recall that from any discussion at LWG. We all just want it done right. 22:04
 
  +
''22:06'' '''toffehoff''' : Organisations who want to use OSM data.<br>
RichardF I think we'll hit it. 22:05
 
  +
''22:06'' '''rweait1''' : Not iPhone app authers. They jsut want free tiles. :-)<br>
rweait1 How so from outsiders? What do outsiders know about it? 22:05
 
  +
''22:06'' '''toffehoff''' : Companies in the automotive industry<br>
toffehoff "They can't get anything done" "They are an unreliable group" that kind of thing. 22:05
 
  +
''22:07'' '''RichardF''' : why wouldn't we hit it? we know what we're doing and we've got the smartest technical guys there are.<br>
JonathanB rweait1: +1 22:05
 
  +
''22:07'' '''rweait1''' : Right. <br>
rweait1 The license change is such a tiny, arcane bit of nonsense. 22:05
 
  +
''22:07'' '''harry-wood''' : yes. My view is we should be aiming to hit it. We've got two months. Lots can happen in two months<br>
rweait1 It's important to US, but outsiders?!?! 22:05
 
  +
''22:08'' '''rweait1''' : But why would we care what Anonymous auto manufacturer says, if Frederik says we need another four weeks?<br>
harry-wood Well there's a fun debate to have there certainly 22:05
 
  +
''22:08'' '''harry-wood''' : so the work of the "rebuild" group is super important<br>
rweait1 Every time I speak to groups about the license, they glaze over with indifference. 22:05
 
  +
''22:08'' '''JonathanB''' : We can definitely hit it in as much as we can start offering an ODBL-only planet<br>
rweait1 Who, outside of OSM(F) could possibly care? 22:06
 
  +
''22:08'' '''toffehoff''' : There are two things: the remapping effort and the rebuilt effort.<br>
toffehoff Organisations who want to use OSM data. 22:06
 
  +
''22:08'' '''rweait1''' : Really. If anonymous auto manufacturer is so interested, where are they helping us?<br>
rweait1 Not iPhone app authers. They jsut want free tiles. :-) 22:06
 
  +
''22:08'' '''toffehoff''' : Who says that they aren't?<br>
toffehoff Companies in the automotive industry 22:06
 
  +
''22:09'' '''rweait1''' : They know that we do everything with volunteers don't they?<br>
RichardF why wouldn't we hit it? we know what we're doing and we've got the smartest technical guys there are. 22:07
 
  +
''22:09'' '''toffehoff''' : Yes, but at some point they are not waiting any longer. Having heard we're working on a new license for more than a year ....<br>
rweait1 Right. 22:07
 
  +
''22:10'' '''harry-wood''' : Are we having a practice run for the debate we need to have with the community when we don't hit the target date? :-)<br>
harry-wood yes. My view is we should be aiming to hit it. We've got two months. Lots can happen in two months 22:07
 
  +
''22:10'' '''rweait1''' : toffehoff. So what?<br>
rweait1 But why would we care what Anonymous auto manufacturer says, if Frederik says we need another four weeks? 22:08
 
  +
''Blackadder left the room (quit: Quit: heading for the next unmapped place=).''<br>
harry-wood so the work of the "rebuild" group is super important 22:08
 
  +
''22:10'' '''rweait1''' : How does that affect them?<br>
JonathanB We can definitely hit it in as much as we can start offering an ODBL-only planet 22:08
 
  +
''22:10'' '''rweait1''' : effect.<br>
toffehoff There are two things: the remapping effort and the rebuilt effort. 22:08
 
  +
''22:11'' '''toffehoff''' : You mean, how the license effect them?<br>
rweait1 Really. If anonymous auto manufacturer is so interested, where are they helping us? 22:08
 
  +
''22:11'' '''rweait1''' : Yeah. Why do they care?<br>
toffehoff Who says that they aren't? 22:08
 
  +
''22:11'' '''rweait1''' : And if they care, why aren't they helping, instead of hiding?<br>
rweait1 They know that we do everything with volunteers don't they? 22:09
 
  +
''22:11'' '''toffehoff''' : Having way much more clarity on the derived works.<br>
toffehoff Yes, but at some point they are not waiting any longer. Having heard we're working on a new license for more than a year .... 22:09
 
  +
''22:12'' '''rweait1''' : Sounds like nonsense to me. I can't see an auto manufacturer caring a bit about the license.<br>
harry-wood Are we having a practice run for the debate we need to have with the community when we don't hit the target date? :-) 22:10
 
  +
''22:12'' '''toffehoff''' : Recently talked with a municipality in NL. They want to use OSM as background layer. But not want to open up some of their data due to privacy issues and such.<br>
rweait1 toffehoff. So what? 22:10
 
  +
''22:13'' '''RichardF''' : would encourage people to remap rather than arguing about whether or not we might hit it ;)<br>
Blackadder left the room (quit: Quit: heading for the next unmapped place=). 22:10
 
  +
''22:13'' '''RichardF''' : and yes, I am saying that with Cornwall open in P2 on my other monitor!<br>
rweait1 How does that affect them? 22:10
 
  +
''22:13'' '''rweait1''' : and with that change of subject, are we done? :-)<br>
rweait1 effect. 22:10
 
  +
''22:13'' '''toffehoff''' : I think we are.<br>
toffehoff You mean, how the license effect them? 22:11
 
  +
''22:14'' '''harry-wood''' : Regarding CWG. We may well be in the position of defending the "failures" on this one, but for now I think we can agree that it would be ….nice ….if we hit the april 1st target<br>
rweait1 Yeah. Why do they care? 22:11
 
  +
''22:14'' '''harry-wood''' : other communcation aspects<br>
rweait1 And if they care, why aren't they helping, instead of hiding? 22:11
 
  +
''22:14'' '''harry-wood''' : are all about contact & remap campaign<br>
toffehoff Having way much more clarity on the derived works. 22:11
 
  +
''22:14'' '''harry-wood''' : if we can think of any way CWG can assist the "rebuild" group… we should do it<br>
rweait1 Sounds like nonsense to me. I can't see an auto manufacturer caring a bit about the license. 22:12
 
  +
''22:15'' '''harry-wood''' : e.g. do they want regular conference calls which we can help with in some way? probably not. Mostly we'd be getting in the way I imagine<br>
toffehoff Recently talked with a municipality in NL. They want to use OSM as background layer. But not want to open up some of their data due to privacy issues and such. 22:12
 
  +
''22:15'' '''rweait1''' : Mike's not shy. He'll ask if he wants something.<br>
RichardF would encourage people to remap rather than arguing about whether or not we might hit it ;) 22:13
 
  +
''22:15'' '''toffehoff''' : I think our focus should be on contact & remap campaign.<br>
RichardF and yes, I am saying that with Cornwall open in P2 on my other monitor! 22:13
 
  +
''22:15'' '''rweait1''' : LWG meetings are Tuesdays<br>
rweait1 and with that change of subject, are we done? :-) 22:13
 
  +
''22:16'' '''rweait1''' : All done then? same/same next week?<br>
toffehoff I think we are. 22:13
 
  +
''22:16'' '''toffehoff''' : Til next week!<br>
harry-wood Regarding CWG. We may well be in the position of defending the "failures" on this one, but for now I think we can agree that it would be ….nice ….if we hit the april 1st target 22:14
 
  +
''22:17'' '''harry-wood''' : ok!<br>
harry-wood other communcation aspects 22:14
 
  +
''22:17'' '''RichardF''' : bye!<br>
harry-wood are all about contact & remap campaign 22:14
 
harry-wood if we can think of any way CWG can assist the "rebuild" group… we should do it 22:14
+
''22:17'' '''harry-wood''' : bye the way I propose the previous minutes<br>
  +
''22:18'' '''harry-wood''' : which jonathanB has formatted nicely<br>
harry-wood e.g. do they want regular conference calls which we can help with in some way? probably not. Mostly we'd be getting in the way I imagine 22:15
 
  +
''22:18'' '''toffehoff''' : I'll second.<br>
rweait1 Mike's not shy. He'll ask if he wants something. 22:15
 
  +
''22:18'' '''harry-wood''' : ( http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/CWG_meeting_2012-01-23 ) excellent<br>
toffehoff I think our focus should be on contact & remap campaign. 22:15
 
  +
''22:19'' '''toffehoff''' : going offline now. Bye!<br>
rweait1 LWG meetings are Tuesdays 22:15
 
  +
''22:19'' '''toffehoff left the room.''' :
rweait1 All done then? same/same next week? 22:16
 
toffehoff 'Til next week! 22:16
 
harry-wood ok! 22:17
 
RichardF bye! 22:17
 
harry-wood bye the way I propose the previous minutes 22:17
 
harry-wood which jonathanB has formatted nicely 22:18
 
toffehoff I'll second. 22:18
 
harry-wood ( http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/CWG_meeting_2012-01-23 ) excellent 22:18
 
toffehoff going offline now. Bye! 22:19
 
toffehoff left the room. 22:19
 
 
</pre>
 

Revision as of 11:52, 14 February 2012

Communication Working Group meeting which took place Monday 6th February 2012

Attendees

  • Henk Hoff
  • Harry Wood
  • Jonathan Bennett
  • Richard Fairhurst
  • Richard Weait

Topics

IRC Log

20:59 harry-wood : hello
20:59 rweait1 : hello.
20:59 JonathanB : Evening.
21:00 toffehoff : Hello all.
21:00 toffehoff : I'm in a cafe in Salt Lake City.
21:00 rweait1 : Wow. Enjoy your beer and joint.  :-/
21:00 toffehoff : Hope this connection is better than last time I was on an "foreign" connection ;-)
21:01 harry-wood : I'm in snowy London …except it mostly melted already
21:01 rweait1 : Can I add "Ulf's Legacy" to the agenda?
21:01 toffehoff : Beer, in early afternoon …. Neuh...
21:01 toffehoff : user.
21:01 toffehoff : Sure I meant.
21:01 rweait1 : Beautiful t-shirt weather here in Toronto.
21:01 rweait1 : and a rare blue sky.
21:02 rweait1 : okay, who's starting us off?
21:02 RichardF : hellooooo
21:02 toffehoff : I've send you all an email about half an hour ago...
21:03 harry-wood : ooh. Looks like we're missing IRC log from last time
21:03 toffehoff : About the 2012 plan. If we agree, we can publish that onto the WG-page on osmf.org
21:03 harry-wood : http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Working_Group_Minutes#Communication_Working_Group
21:04 toffehoff : I'm afraid I don't have it....
21:04 toffehoff : the IRC log.
21:04 harry-wood : jonathanB here? Dont suppose you have that do you?
21:04 JonathanB : I do -- gimme five to reformat and I'll post.
21:05 toffehoff : So, what's on today agenda?

21:05 harry-wood : coool.. Just paste it in a

 tag. We can sort it out later
21:05 RichardF : I'll mention, just for the record:
21:06 RichardF : a few months ago I discussed entering OSM for a thing in the Observer (UK newspaper) called "Britain's New Radicals"
21:06 RichardF : about organisations that are changing the country and the world for the better
21:06 RichardF : and CWG people said "sure, just do it"
21:06 RichardF : anyway, I heard from them this week and we've been listed as one of the 50
21:06 RichardF : so we get a nice mention in the Observer and everything
21:06 harry-wood : cool
21:06 toffehoff : :-)
21:06 rweait1 : Well done.
21:06 harry-wood : anythng we need to do?
21:06 RichardF : could possibly do with some images to send them if anyone has any suggestions!
21:07 harry-wood : Maybe the one of TomH in reindeer antlers?
21:07 RichardF : hmmmm ;)
21:07 harry-wood : …no maybe not
21:08 RichardF : well, I can probably find one anyway
21:08 toffehoff : Maybe some of the featured images of the wiki?
21:08 harry-wood : an image of the map
21:08 RichardF : there's a nice one by a friend of Mikel on the Press pages which I'll ask him if we can use
21:09 Blackadder : Did you find a log for last time? I might have it
21:09 harry-wood : ooh hello Blackadder
21:09 Blackadder : hi, was just passing ;-)
21:09 harry-wood : think JonathanB has it
21:10 Blackadder : cool. ping me if needed
21:10 JonathanB : I do -- rough version now at http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/CWG_meeting_2012-01-23
21:10 harry-wood : Next on the agenda...
21:10 harry-wood : What the plan for the plan?
21:10 harry-wood : Do we need to write more of a plan than that? Or those bullet points are enough?
21:11 harry-wood : (see henk's email half an hour ago)
21:11 rweait1 : Has Henk swapped Dutch for Arabic to lighten his load?
21:12 toffehoff : :-)
21:12 rweait1 : Do we have a lead on an Arabic-speaking contributor?
21:12 toffehoff : I remember we had a discussion a couple of weeks ago about the languages would like to have.
21:12 toffehoff : Arabic was one of our "challenges"
21:13 rweait1 : I don't have any objection to those four points.
21:14 toffehoff : The only thing we may want to add is if we expect to spend any budget on these items.
21:16 rweait1 : toffehoff, I can't see why we would. Would we hire a translator for a community that isn't interested enough to translate for themselves?
21:16 toffehoff : If we do not expect to spend any budget, that's ok. If we do, it may be good to mention it.
21:17 harry-wood : Maybe "expanding the number of active CWG members" doesn't need to be one of the bullet points. It's kind of a meta-plan. We need more people to some other things we're planning
21:17 harry-wood : Taking on more communication challenges within the community, such as work on documentation
21:17 RichardF : +1
21:18 toffehoff : What kind of documentation are we talking about?
21:18 JonathanB : Yes -- "more people" is like "more money"
21:18 RichardF : toffehoff: simplifying common aspects of OSM in the same way that switch2osm simplifies getting maps onto your own site
21:19 toffehoff : I think the Engineering WG also has a target to make more technical documention available.
21:19 JonathanB : ...and that's something we can offer to help with
21:19 toffehoff : Fine, just so we do not duplicate things....
21:19 harry-wood : documentation may mean new websites explaining things, or improving existing documents on the wiki. But also some grand unified plan for different attempts at documentation
21:20 JonathanB : (full Minutes up at http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/CWG_meeting_2012-01-23 now)
21:20 rweait1 : no objections to any of that from me.
21:20 JonathanB : What we seem to be missing is a grand front page to *all* OSM documentation
21:21 harry-wood : Yes. And trying scope out the different docs so that it's clear where to go for what
21:21 toffehoff : Sounds great.
21:22 rweait1 : anything else to add or remove from that plan, or can we move on?
21:23 toffehoff : So: remove the # of members and add the documentation item?
21:23 JonathanB : +1 to that
21:24 RichardF : yep
21:24 toffehoff : OK, will send this around on management@ and put it on our page on osmf.org
21:25 toffehoff : Next?
21:25 toffehoff : Ulf's legacy?
21:25 rweait1 : Right.
21:25 rweait1 : Background
21:26 toffehoff : See also mail of rweait1 @ Jan 29th.
21:26 rweait1 : Ulf's family have asked that OSMF receive funds from those who wish to honour Ulf, as a way to continue Ulf's good work and interest in OSM.
21:26 rweait1 : Board appears to be fine with CWG taking lead on this.
21:27 rweait1 : So we need to 1) set up to recive the funds 2) announce
21:27 rweait1 : and 3) decide what to do with the funds.
21:27 rweait1 : as a suitable legacy.
21:27 rweait1 : Sound good?
21:28 harry-wood : yes.
21:28 harry-wood : We need to be set up to receive donations from germany… which seemed to be a problem in the past
21:28 rweait1 : receiving Euro transfers is now set up and on the wiki.
21:29 harry-wood : Cool. Does that solve it?
21:29 rweait1 : any memo field with "Ulf Moeller" would make the contribution trackable.
21:29 rweait1 : comments are already included in paypal payments.
21:29 toffehoff : We could also make a special paypal donation button
21:30 rweait1 : I think the tricky part is "what to do with the fund."
21:30 toffehoff : which automatically adds a remark.
21:30 harry-wood : 2) announce <— No problems with that. I think we're getting quite good a announcing things
21:31 harry-wood : We'd need to decide how to announce it exactly. Depends what we're announcing.
21:31 rweait1 : we could consume the fund all at once to do something "big", or a bit at a time, over time, to do something smaller, but for several years...
21:31 toffehoff : It would be good to have a rough idea on what we're going to do with it.
21:31 rweait1 : suggestions have been, 1) sponsor attendee for SotM.
21:31 JonathanB : Something, say, annual would provide a longer legacy
21:32 toffehoff : JonathanB: +1
21:32 rweait1 : 2) donate GPS(es) to someone, each year
21:33 rweait1 : Right. so if the fund is 2-3k, can it bear interest, and buy a GPSr (or two) each year?
21:33 toffehoff : When we're talking about donating GPS-es, we could rename the maps4all project ....
21:33 rweait1 : Perhaps award those to German Cyclist mappers?
21:33 rweait1 : you mean GPS2Go?
21:34 harry-wood : maps3all is kind of the new name for GPS2go I think
21:34 toffehoff : Yes, the plan is to revamp it under the maps4all name.
21:34 harry-wood : which is well underway
21:34 harry-wood : so probably best not to suggest renaming it again :-)
21:35 rweait1 : I think we want to come to a decision on this fairly soon. And I think we want more ideasfrom which to choose.
21:35 toffehoff : If we want to do it, we need to be quick.
21:35 harry-wood : I like the sponsor SOTM attendee idea
21:35 harry-wood : how to pick a winner?
21:35 JonathanB : That could eat up 1000s per year
21:36 harry-wood : yes it could be expensive
21:36 toffehoff : I like the gps-es a bit more, since it's more scalable.
21:36 RichardF : I like the idea of using it to encourage real on-the-ground mapping.
21:36 RichardF : We don't do that enough.
21:36 rweait1 : RichardF +1
21:36 RichardF : so, either GPSes or some form of mapping prize.
21:36 rweait1 : That strikes me as Ulf, to a "T"
21:37 rweait1 : The photos I've seen of him, are Ulf with his bike and a GPS.
21:37 toffehoff : Pardon my French: "to a 'T'" ?
21:37 rweait1 : Do we give away GPSrs, or a GPSr and a bike?
21:37 rweait1 : toffehoff: To A "T". (A perfect Match)
21:37 rweait1 : :-)
21:38 toffehoff : ah…. :-)
21:38 rweait1 : picking a winner. Hard problem again.
21:38 rweait1 : Accept nominations?
21:38 toffehoff : What are the criteria?
21:38 rweait1 : random chance from those who map a cycleway?
21:39 RichardF : accept nominations. that rewards community, too.
21:39 RichardF : i.e. people have to like you :)
21:39 toffehoff : RichardF: _1
21:39 toffehoff : +1
21:40 rweait1 : Okay, before we get too deep in this, do we have other topics for today?
21:40 toffehoff : Any communication we need to help with relating the license change?
21:40 rweait1 : translations for the post on blog...
21:41 harry-wood : yes that need translating
21:41 rweait1 : harry-wood shall I send a note to the translators?
21:41 harry-wood : athough confusingly it can also be translated on the wiki
21:42 rweait1 : anything else, or should we continue with Ulf?
21:42 harry-wood : if somebody posts a translation on the blog we should make sure it gets copied to the wiki quickly or vice versa
21:42 harry-wood : what could go wrong ?:-)
21:42 harry-wood : I think mostly we could do with pinging our normal translating folks yes
21:43 rweait1 : I will do that tonight.
21:43 toffehoff : Anything we need to do with switch2osm?
21:43 harry-wood : RichardF what d'you think?
21:43 RichardF : nope, don't think so
21:43 harry-wood : looking good
21:44 RichardF : I'll set up some translation infrastructure for it in due course but am waiting for it to calm down first :)
21:44 harry-wood : Aforo mamoemoroere blasssrssson was pointing out that we could have a page on google maps javascript & osm tiles
21:44 harry-wood : ^my attempt at spelling an icelandic name
21:45 rweait1 : What about an "Ulf Moeller Memorial Mapper of the Year Award" with no attached prize. Just recognition.
21:46 harry-wood : yeah. that doesn't solve the what to spend the money on question
21:46 harry-wood : but maybe the money could just go to OSMF …boring though that is
21:46 rweait1 : something like: "for recognition of excellence in mapping cycle infrastructure"
21:46 harry-wood : hehe
21:46 rweait1 : we coudl even add the GPS to that until we run out of GPS money.
21:47 RichardF : rweait1: good idea
21:47 rweait1 : or "cycle infrastructure and local community."
21:47 toffehoff : Good idea, but the name needs tweaking, so it also hints to cycle-infrastructure.
21:47 rweait1 : I'd like to propose that the Foundation chip in an amount for the fund.
21:48 rweait1 : toffehoff, sure.
21:48 rweait1 : The CyclePath Award.  :-)
21:48 rweait1 : (not serious)
21:49 toffehoff : The Off-The-Beaten-Track award.
21:49 harry-wood : The "highway=cycleway or is it cycle=yes" award
21:49 rweait1 : Or leave it as "The Ulf Moeller Memorial Award" and leave the details subject to refinement over time...
21:50 toffehoff : We could leave it like that for now.
21:50 toffehoff : More interesting are the criteria for the award.
21:51 rweait1 : Do we leave criteria and judging in the hands of CWG as well?
21:51 toffehoff : I think we can agree on it being a nomination-based award.
21:51 toffehoff : That's a good question...
21:51 harry-wood : unless we don't get enough nominations
21:51 toffehoff : I didn't say who needs to nominate ;-)
21:52 rweait1 : maybe email ideas this week and I'll provide a summary for next week?
21:52 harry-wood : Also what if we get an embarrassing amount of money to spend on an award?
21:52 toffehoff : We could let the community vote on the winner.
21:52 rweait1 : With the goal of hiving this done and ready to annoucemnext week.
21:52 rweait1 : harry-wood. That could happen.
21:52 rweait1 : Include a bike in the first award?
21:53 rweait1 : Buy a server for cycle map tiles?
21:53 JonathanB : We could approach a bike manufacturer for the first year
21:53 rweait1 : Oh yes, we could
21:53 rweait1 : +1
21:53 toffehoff : +1
21:53 rweait1 : and thne buy a bike for the second year.
21:53 rweait1 : etc.
21:53 rweait1 : One problem at a time I guess.
21:54 toffehoff : :-)
21:54 toffehoff : It's getting near the hour.
21:54 rweait1 : Thanks for indulging me.
21:54 harry-wood : so if we have get an embarrassing amount of money then it goes to next years prize fund
21:54 rweait1 : we can adapt.
21:54 toffehoff : I would be great if we can make something lasting out of it.
21:55 RichardF : a bike is a really great idea.
21:55 rweait1 : We could make an annual donation to a victims of violence fund or something.
21:55 rweait1 : Provide map consulting for a victim shelter.
21:55 toffehoff : Let's see how much we end up with first....
21:55 rweait1 : Okay. Send me brainstorms this week.
21:56 rweait1 : and bike manufacturers.
21:56 rweait1 : anything else?
21:56 harry-wood : sounds like a plan
21:56 harry-wood : I went to management team meeting on Wednesday
21:57 harry-wood : we discussed one topic only. License change and the DB "rebuild" process
21:58 harry-wood : There's a rebuild mailing list where technicalities of a the DB rebuild are being discussed.
21:58 rweait1 : How'd that go?
21:58 harry-wood : This is super-important and on the critical path for license changeover on april 1st
21:59 harry-wood : but it's not particularly helpful to shout about that mailing list far and wide and try to get lots of people on there.
22:00 harry-wood : The communication challenge is mainly this contact & re-map campaign
22:01 harry-wood : There was some lively discussion about whether or not april 1st should be regarded as a solid deadline.
22:01 rweait1 : what were the arguments for and against?
22:02 harry-wood : Frederick is very involved in the technicalities and was keen to say that the job should be done right, and if this mean taking a month or two longer, then so be it
22:03 harry-wood : SteveC said …some things which wound up Frederick
22:04 rweait1 : oh really?
22:04 harry-wood : suffice to say there will certainly be some people who regard it as a major failure if we do not hit the April 1st deadline
22:04 JonathanB : For what reason?
22:04 harry-wood : major failure of the board, the foundation, and of OpenStreetMap (from an outsiders perspective)
22:04 rweait1 : hmm, I don't recall that from any discussion at LWG. We all just want it done right.
22:05 RichardF : I think we'll hit it.
22:05 rweait1 : How so from outsiders? What do outsiders know about it?
22:05 toffehoff : They can't get anything done "They are an unreliable group" that kind of thing.
22:05 JonathanB : rweait1: +1
22:05 rweait1 : The license change is such a tiny, arcane bit of nonsense.
22:05 rweait1 : It's important to US, but outsiders?!?!
22:05 harry-wood : Well there's a fun debate to have there certainly
22:05 rweait1 : Every time I speak to groups about the license, they glaze over with indifference.
22:06 rweait1 : Who, outside of OSM(F) could possibly care?
22:06 toffehoff : Organisations who want to use OSM data.
22:06 rweait1 : Not iPhone app authers. They jsut want free tiles. :-)
22:06 toffehoff : Companies in the automotive industry
22:07 RichardF : why wouldn't we hit it? we know what we're doing and we've got the smartest technical guys there are.
22:07 rweait1 : Right.
22:07 harry-wood : yes. My view is we should be aiming to hit it. We've got two months. Lots can happen in two months
22:08 rweait1 : But why would we care what Anonymous auto manufacturer says, if Frederik says we need another four weeks?
22:08 harry-wood : so the work of the "rebuild" group is super important
22:08 JonathanB : We can definitely hit it in as much as we can start offering an ODBL-only planet
22:08 toffehoff : There are two things: the remapping effort and the rebuilt effort.
22:08 rweait1 : Really. If anonymous auto manufacturer is so interested, where are they helping us?
22:08 toffehoff : Who says that they aren't?
22:09 rweait1 : They know that we do everything with volunteers don't they?
22:09 toffehoff : Yes, but at some point they are not waiting any longer. Having heard we're working on a new license for more than a year ....
22:10 harry-wood : Are we having a practice run for the debate we need to have with the community when we don't hit the target date? :-)
22:10 rweait1 : toffehoff. So what?
Blackadder left the room (quit: Quit: heading for the next unmapped place=).
22:10 rweait1 : How does that affect them?
22:10 rweait1 : effect.
22:11 toffehoff : You mean, how the license effect them?
22:11 rweait1 : Yeah. Why do they care?
22:11 rweait1 : And if they care, why aren't they helping, instead of hiding?
22:11 toffehoff : Having way much more clarity on the derived works.
22:12 rweait1 : Sounds like nonsense to me. I can't see an auto manufacturer caring a bit about the license.
22:12 toffehoff : Recently talked with a municipality in NL. They want to use OSM as background layer. But not want to open up some of their data due to privacy issues and such.
22:13 RichardF : would encourage people to remap rather than arguing about whether or not we might hit it ;)
22:13 RichardF : and yes, I am saying that with Cornwall open in P2 on my other monitor!
22:13 rweait1 : and with that change of subject, are we done?  :-)
22:13 toffehoff : I think we are.
22:14 harry-wood : Regarding CWG. We may well be in the position of defending the "failures" on this one, but for now I think we can agree that it would be ….nice ….if we hit the april 1st target
22:14 harry-wood : other communcation aspects
22:14 harry-wood : are all about contact & remap campaign
22:14 harry-wood : if we can think of any way CWG can assist the "rebuild" group… we should do it
22:15 harry-wood : e.g. do they want regular conference calls which we can help with in some way? probably not. Mostly we'd be getting in the way I imagine
22:15 rweait1 : Mike's not shy. He'll ask if he wants something.
22:15 toffehoff : I think our focus should be on contact & remap campaign.
22:15 rweait1 : LWG meetings are Tuesdays
22:16 rweait1 : All done then? same/same next week?
22:16 toffehoff : Til next week!
22:17 harry-wood : ok!
22:17 RichardF : bye!
22:17 harry-wood : bye the way I propose the previous minutes
22:18 harry-wood : which jonathanB has formatted nicely
22:18 toffehoff : I'll second.
22:18 harry-wood : ( http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/CWG_meeting_2012-01-23 ) excellent
22:19 toffehoff : going offline now. Bye!
22:19 toffehoff left the room. :