Monday, 23 January 2012 21:59
toffehoff Will we go through them next week? 21:59
JonathanB OK 21:59
harry-wood see you guys 22:00
toffehoff See you all next week! 22:00
JonathanB Byesy-bye 22:00
Monday, 6 February 2012 20:57
The topic for #osm-strategic is: Lets just replace the front page with a link to google maps 20:57
harry-wood hello 20:59
rweait1 hello. 20:59
JonathanB Evening. 20:59
toffehoff Hello all. 21:00
toffehoff I'm in a cafe in Salt Lake City. 21:00
rweait1 Wow. Enjoy your beer and joint. :-/ 21:00
toffehoff Hope this connection is better than last time I was on an "foreign" connection ;-) 21:00
harry-wood I'm in snowy London …except it mostly melted already 21:01
rweait1 Can I add "Ulf's Legacy" to the agenda? 21:01
toffehoff Beer, in early afternoon …. Neuh... 21:01
toffehoff user. 21:01
toffehoff Sure I meant. 21:01
rweait1 Beautiful t-shirt weather here in Toronto. 21:01
rweait1 and a rare blue sky. 21:01
rweait1 okay, who's starting us off? 21:02
RichardF hellooooo 21:02
toffehoff I've send you all an email about half an hour ago... 21:02
harry-wood ooh. Looks like we're missing IRC log from last time 21:03
toffehoff About the 2012 plan. If we agree, we can publish that onto the WG-page on osmf.org 21:03
harry-wood http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Working_Group_Minutes#Communication_Working_Group 21:03
toffehoff I'm afraid I don't have it.... 21:04
toffehoff the IRC log. 21:04
harry-wood jonathanB here? Dont suppose you have that do you? 21:04
JonathanB I do -- gimme five to reformat and I'll post. 21:04
toffehoff So, what's on today agenda? 21:05
harry-wood coool.. Just paste it in a <pre> tag. We can sort it out later 21:05
RichardF I'll mention, just for the record: 21:05
RichardF a few months ago I discussed entering OSM for a thing in the Observer (UK newspaper) called "Britain's New Radicals" 21:06
RichardF about organisations that are changing the country and the world for the better 21:06
RichardF and CWG people said "sure, just do it" 21:06
RichardF anyway, I heard from them this week and we've been listed as one of the 50 21:06
RichardF so we get a nice mention in the Observer and everything 21:06
harry-wood cool 21:06
toffehoff :-) 21:06
rweait1 Well done. 21:06
harry-wood anythng we need to do? 21:06
RichardF could possibly do with some images to send them if anyone has any suggestions! 21:06
harry-wood Maybe the one of TomH in reindeer antlers? 21:07
RichardF hmmmm ;) 21:07
harry-wood …no maybe not 21:07
RichardF well, I can probably find one anyway 21:08
toffehoff Maybe some of the featured images of the wiki? 21:08
harry-wood an image of the map 21:08
RichardF there's a nice one by a friend of Mikel on the Press pages which I'll ask him if we can use 21:08
Blackadder Did you find a log for last time? I might have it 21:09
harry-wood ooh hello Blackadder 21:09
Blackadder hi, was just passing ;-) 21:09
harry-wood think JonathanB has it 21:09
Blackadder cool. ping me if needed 21:10
JonathanB I do -- rough version now at http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/CWG_meeting_2012-01-23 21:10
harry-wood Next on the agenda... 21:10
harry-wood What the plan for the plan? 21:10
harry-wood Do we need to write more of a plan than that? Or those bullet points are enough? 21:10
harry-wood (see henk's email half an hour ago) 21:11
rweait1 Has Henk swapped Dutch for Arabic to lighten his load? 21:11
toffehoff :-) 21:12
rweait1 Do we have a lead on an Arabic-speaking contributor? 21:12
toffehoff I remember we had a discussion a couple of weeks ago about the languages would like to have. 21:12
toffehoff Arabic was one of our "challenges" 21:12
rweait1 I don't have any objection to those four points. 21:13
toffehoff The only thing we may want to add is if we expect to spend any budget on these items. 21:14
rweait1 toffehoff, I can't see why we would. Would we hire a translator for a community that isn't interested enough to translate for themselves? 21:16
toffehoff If we do not expect to spend any budget, that's ok. If we do, it may be good to mention it. 21:16
harry-wood Maybe "expanding the number of active CWG members" doesn't need to be one of the bullet points. It's kind of a meta-plan. We need more people to some other things we're planning 21:17
harry-wood "Taking on more communication challenges within the community, such as work on documentation" 21:17
RichardF +1 21:17
toffehoff What kind of documentation are we talking about? 21:18
JonathanB Yes -- "more people" is like "more money" 21:18
RichardF toffehoff: simplifying common aspects of OSM in the same way that switch2osm simplifies getting maps onto your own site 21:18
toffehoff I think the Engineering WG also has a target to make more technical documention available. 21:19
JonathanB ...and that's something we can offer to help with 21:19
toffehoff Fine, just so we do not duplicate things.... 21:19
harry-wood "documentation" may mean new websites explaining things, or improving existing documents on the wiki. But also some grand unified plan for different attempts at documentation 21:19
JonathanB (full Minutes up at http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/CWG_meeting_2012-01-23 now) 21:20
rweait1 no objections to any of that from me. 21:20
JonathanB What we seem to be missing is a grand front page to *all* OSM documentation 21:20
harry-wood Yes. And trying scope out the different docs so that it's clear where to go for what 21:21
toffehoff Sounds great. 21:21
rweait1 anything else to add or remove from that plan, or can we move on? 21:22
toffehoff So: remove the # of members and add the documentation item? 21:23
JonathanB +1 to that 21:23
RichardF yep 21:24
toffehoff OK, will send this around on management@ and put it on our page on osmf.org 21:24
toffehoff Next? 21:25
toffehoff Ulf's legacy? 21:25
rweait1 Right. 21:25
rweait1 Background 21:25
toffehoff See also mail of rweait1 @ Jan 29th. 21:26
rweait1 Ulf's family have asked that OSMF receive funds from those who wish to honour Ulf, as a way to continue Ulf's good work and interest in OSM. 21:26
rweait1 Board appears to be fine with CWG taking lead on this. 21:26
rweait1 So we need to 1) set up to recive the funds 2) announce 21:27
rweait1 and 3) decide what to do with the funds. 21:27
rweait1 as a suitable legacy. 21:27
rweait1 Sound good? 21:27
harry-wood yes. 21:28
harry-wood We need to be set up to receive donations from germany… which seemed to be a problem in the past 21:28
rweait1 receiving Euro transfers is now set up and on the wiki. 21:28
harry-wood Cool. Does that solve it? 21:29
rweait1 any memo field with "Ulf Moeller" would make the contribution trackable. 21:29
rweait1 comments are already included in paypal payments. 21:29
toffehoff We could also make a special paypal donation button 21:29
rweait1 I think the tricky part is "what to do with the fund." 21:30
toffehoff which automatically adds a remark. 21:30
harry-wood 2) announce <— No problems with that. I think we're getting quite good a announcing things 21:30
harry-wood We'd need to decide how to announce it exactly. Depends what we're announcing. 21:31
rweait1 we could consume the fund all at once to do something "big", or a bit at a time, over time, to do something smaller, but for several years... 21:31
toffehoff It would be good to have a rough idea on what we're going to do with it. 21:31
rweait1 suggestions have been, 1) sponsor attendee for SotM. 21:31
JonathanB Something, say, annual would provide a longer legacy 21:31
toffehoff JonathanB: +1 21:32
rweait1 2) donate GPS(es) to someone, each year 21:32
rweait1 Right. so if the fund is 2-3k, can it bear interest, and buy a GPSr (or two) each year? 21:33
toffehoff When we're talking about donating GPS-es, we could rename the maps4all project .... 21:33
rweait1 Perhaps award those to German Cyclist mappers? 21:33
rweait1 you mean GPS2Go? 21:33
harry-wood maps3all is kind of the new name for GPS2go I think 21:34
toffehoff Yes, the plan is to revamp it under the maps4all name. 21:34
harry-wood which is well underway 21:34
harry-wood so probably best not to suggest renaming it again :-) 21:34
rweait1 I think we want to come to a decision on this fairly soon. And I think we want more ideasfrom which to choose. 21:35
toffehoff If we want to do it, we need to be quick. 21:35
harry-wood I like the sponsor SOTM attendee idea 21:35
harry-wood how to pick a winner? 21:35
JonathanB That could eat up 1000s per year 21:35
harry-wood yes it could be expensive 21:36
toffehoff I like the gps-es a bit more, since it's more scalable. 21:36
RichardF I like the idea of using it to encourage real on-the-ground mapping. 21:36
RichardF We don't do that enough. 21:36
rweait1 RichardF +1 21:36
RichardF so, either GPSes or some form of mapping prize. 21:36
rweait1 That strikes me as Ulf, to a "T" 21:36
rweait1 The photos I've seen of him, are Ulf with his bike and a GPS. 21:37
toffehoff Pardon my French: "to a 'T'" ? 21:37
rweait1 Do we give away GPSrs, or a GPSr and a bike? 21:37
rweait1 toffehoff: To A "T". (A perfect Match) 21:37
rweait1 :-) 21:37
toffehoff ah…. :-) 21:38
rweait1 picking a winner. Hard problem again. 21:38
rweait1 Accept nominations? 21:38
toffehoff What are the criteria? 21:38
rweait1 random chance from those who map a cycleway? 21:38
RichardF accept nominations. that rewards community, too. 21:39
RichardF i.e. people have to like you :) 21:39
toffehoff RichardF: _1 21:39
toffehoff +1 21:39
rweait1 Okay, before we get too deep in this, do we have other topics for today? 21:40
toffehoff Any communication we need to help with relating the license change? 21:40
rweait1 translations for the post on blog... 21:40
harry-wood yes that need translating 21:41
rweait1 harry-wood shall I send a note to the translators? 21:41
harry-wood athough confusingly it can also be translated on the wiki 21:41
rweait1 anything else, or should we continue with Ulf? 21:42
harry-wood if somebody posts a translation on the blog we should make sure it gets copied to the wiki quickly or vice versa 21:42
harry-wood what could go wrong ?:-) 21:42
harry-wood I think mostly we could do with pinging our normal translating folks yes 21:42
rweait1 I will do that tonight. 21:43
toffehoff Anything we need to do with switch2osm? 21:43
harry-wood RichardF what d'you think? 21:43
RichardF nope, don't think so 21:43
harry-wood looking good 21:43
RichardF I'll set up some translation infrastructure for it in due course but am waiting for it to calm down first :) 21:44
harry-wood Aforo mamoemoroere blasssrssson was pointing out that we could have a page on google maps javascript & osm tiles 21:44
harry-wood ^my attempt at spelling an icelandic name 21:44
rweait1 What about an "Ulf Moeller Memorial Mapper of the Year Award" with no attached prize. Just recognition. 21:45
harry-wood yeah. that doesn't solve the what to spend the money on question 21:46
harry-wood but maybe the money could just go to OSMF …boring though that is 21:46
rweait1 something like: "for recognition of excellence in mapping cycle infrastructure" 21:46
harry-wood hehe 21:46
rweait1 we coudl even add the GPS to that until we run out of GPS money. 21:46
RichardF rweait1: good idea 21:47
rweait1 or "cycle infrastructure and local community." 21:47
toffehoff Good idea, but the name needs tweaking, so it also hints to cycle-infrastructure. 21:47
rweait1 I'd like to propose that the Foundation chip in an amount for the fund. 21:47
rweait1 toffehoff, sure. 21:48
rweait1 The CyclePath Award. :-) 21:48
rweait1 (not serious) 21:48
toffehoff The Off-The-Beaten-Track award. 21:49
harry-wood The "highway=cycleway or is it cycle=yes" award 21:49
rweait1 Or leave it as "The Ulf Moeller Memorial Award" and leave the details subject to refinement over time... 21:49
toffehoff We could leave it like that for now. 21:50
toffehoff More interesting are the criteria for the award. 21:50
rweait1 Do we leave criteria and judging in the hands of CWG as well? 21:51
toffehoff I think we can agree on it being a nomination-based award. 21:51
toffehoff That's a good question... 21:51
harry-wood unless we don't get enough nominations 21:51
toffehoff I didn't say who needs to nominate ;-) 21:51
rweait1 maybe email ideas this week and I'll provide a summary for next week? 21:52
harry-wood Also what if we get an embarrassing amount of money to spend on an award? 21:52
toffehoff We could let the community vote on the winner. 21:52
rweait1 With the goal of hiving this done and ready to annoucemnext week. 21:52
rweait1 harry-wood. That could happen. 21:52
rweait1 Include a bike in the first award? 21:52
rweait1 Buy a server for cycle map tiles? 21:53
JonathanB We could approach a bike manufacturer for the first year 21:53
rweait1 Oh yes, we could 21:53
rweait1 +1 21:53
toffehoff +1 21:53
rweait1 and thne buy a bike for the second year. 21:53
rweait1 etc. 21:53
rweait1 One problem at a time I guess. 21:53
toffehoff :-) 21:54
toffehoff It's getting near the hour. 21:54
rweait1 Thanks for indulging me. 21:54
harry-wood so if we have get an embarrassing amount of money then it goes to next years prize fund 21:54
rweait1 we can adapt. 21:54
toffehoff I would be great if we can make something lasting out of it. 21:54
RichardF a bike is a really great idea. 21:55
rweait1 We could make an annual donation to a victims of violence fund or something. 21:55
rweait1 Provide map consulting for a victim shelter. 21:55
toffehoff Let's see how much we end up with first.... 21:55
rweait1 Okay. Send me brainstorms this week. 21:55
rweait1 and bike manufacturers. 21:56
rweait1 anything else? 21:56
harry-wood sounds like a plan 21:56
harry-wood I went to management team meeting on Wednesday 21:56
harry-wood we discussed one topic only. License change and the DB "rebuild" process 21:57
harry-wood There's a rebuild mailing list where technicalities of a the DB rebuild are being discussed. 21:58
rweait1 How'd that go? 21:58
harry-wood This is super-important and on the critical path for license changeover on april 1st 21:58
harry-wood but it's not particularly helpful to shout about that mailing list far and wide and try to get lots of people on there. 21:59
harry-wood The communication challenge is mainly this contact & re-map campaign 22:00
harry-wood There was some lively discussion about whether or not april 1st should be regarded as a solid deadline. 22:01
rweait1 what were the arguments for and against? 22:01
harry-wood Frederick is very involved in the technicalities and was keen to say that the job should be done right, and if this mean taking a month or two longer, then so be it 22:02
harry-wood SteveC said …some things which wound up Frederick 22:03
rweait1 oh really? 22:04
harry-wood suffice to say there will certainly be some people who regard it as a major failure if we do not hit the April 1st deadline 22:04
JonathanB For what reason? 22:04
harry-wood major failure of the board, the foundation, and of OpenStreetMap (from an outsiders perspective) 22:04
rweait1 hmm, I don't recall that from any discussion at LWG. We all just want it done right. 22:04
RichardF I think we'll hit it. 22:05
rweait1 How so from outsiders? What do outsiders know about it? 22:05
toffehoff "They can't get anything done" "They are an unreliable group" that kind of thing. 22:05
JonathanB rweait1: +1 22:05
rweait1 The license change is such a tiny, arcane bit of nonsense. 22:05
rweait1 It's important to US, but outsiders?!?! 22:05
harry-wood Well there's a fun debate to have there certainly 22:05
rweait1 Every time I speak to groups about the license, they glaze over with indifference. 22:05
rweait1 Who, outside of OSM(F) could possibly care? 22:06
toffehoff Organisations who want to use OSM data. 22:06
rweait1 Not iPhone app authers. They jsut want free tiles. :-) 22:06
toffehoff Companies in the automotive industry 22:06
RichardF why wouldn't we hit it? we know what we're doing and we've got the smartest technical guys there are. 22:07
rweait1 Right. 22:07
harry-wood yes. My view is we should be aiming to hit it. We've got two months. Lots can happen in two months 22:07
rweait1 But why would we care what Anonymous auto manufacturer says, if Frederik says we need another four weeks? 22:08
harry-wood so the work of the "rebuild" group is super important 22:08
JonathanB We can definitely hit it in as much as we can start offering an ODBL-only planet 22:08
toffehoff There are two things: the remapping effort and the rebuilt effort. 22:08
rweait1 Really. If anonymous auto manufacturer is so interested, where are they helping us? 22:08
toffehoff Who says that they aren't? 22:08
rweait1 They know that we do everything with volunteers don't they? 22:09
toffehoff Yes, but at some point they are not waiting any longer. Having heard we're working on a new license for more than a year .... 22:09
harry-wood Are we having a practice run for the debate we need to have with the community when we don't hit the target date? :-) 22:10
rweait1 toffehoff. So what? 22:10
Blackadder left the room (quit: Quit: heading for the next unmapped place=). 22:10
rweait1 How does that affect them? 22:10
rweait1 effect. 22:10
toffehoff You mean, how the license effect them? 22:11
rweait1 Yeah. Why do they care? 22:11
rweait1 And if they care, why aren't they helping, instead of hiding? 22:11
toffehoff Having way much more clarity on the derived works. 22:11
rweait1 Sounds like nonsense to me. I can't see an auto manufacturer caring a bit about the license. 22:12
toffehoff Recently talked with a municipality in NL. They want to use OSM as background layer. But not want to open up some of their data due to privacy issues and such. 22:12
RichardF would encourage people to remap rather than arguing about whether or not we might hit it ;) 22:13
RichardF and yes, I am saying that with Cornwall open in P2 on my other monitor! 22:13
rweait1 and with that change of subject, are we done? :-) 22:13
toffehoff I think we are. 22:13
harry-wood Regarding CWG. We may well be in the position of defending the "failures" on this one, but for now I think we can agree that it would be ….nice ….if we hit the april 1st target 22:14
harry-wood other communcation aspects 22:14
harry-wood are all about contact & remap campaign 22:14
harry-wood if we can think of any way CWG can assist the "rebuild" group… we should do it 22:14
harry-wood e.g. do they want regular conference calls which we can help with in some way? probably not. Mostly we'd be getting in the way I imagine 22:15
rweait1 Mike's not shy. He'll ask if he wants something. 22:15
toffehoff I think our focus should be on contact & remap campaign. 22:15
rweait1 LWG meetings are Tuesdays 22:15
rweait1 All done then? same/same next week? 22:16
toffehoff 'Til next week! 22:16
harry-wood ok! 22:17
RichardF bye! 22:17
harry-wood bye the way I propose the previous minutes 22:17
harry-wood which jonathanB has formatted nicely 22:18
toffehoff I'll second. 22:18
harry-wood ( http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/CWG_meeting_2012-01-23 ) excellent 22:18
toffehoff going offline now. Bye! 22:19
toffehoff left the room. 22:19