Difference between revisions of "CWG meeting 2016-01-20"

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[[Communication Working Group]] meeting on Wednesday 2016-01-20
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[[Communication Working Group]] meeting on Wednesday 2016-01-27
   
 
=== Attendees ===
 
=== Attendees ===
   
* Harry Wood
 
 
* Ilya Zverev
 
* Ilya Zverev
* Martijn van Exel
 
 
* Willie Marcel
 
* Willie Marcel
 
* Hrvoje Bogner
 
* Hrvoje Bogner
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=== Next Meeting ===
 
=== Next Meeting ===
   
Wednesday 2016-01-27, [http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=CWG+Meeting&iso=20160127T21 21:00 UTC]
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Wednesday 2016-02-03, [http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=CWG+Meeting&iso=20160203T21 21:00 UTC]
   
 
=== IRC log ===
 
=== IRC log ===
''20:52'' '''wille''': hello!<br>
 
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''20:53'' '''hbogner''': hi wille<br>
 
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<poem>
''20:58'' '''Zverik''': Hi everyone :)<br>
 
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[23:33] <hbogner> hi
''20:59'' '''hbogner''': hi Zverik<br>
 
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[23:49] <wille> hello
''20:59'' '''hbogner''': and hi harry-wood<br>
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[00:02] <hbogner> ping me when we start
''20:59'' '''Zverik''': I'm expecting mvexel here also<br>
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[00:10] <wille> mvexel: Zverik: are you ready?
''21:00'' '''harry-wood''': Hi!<br>
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[00:14] <Zverik> hi everyone
''21:00'' '''Zverik''': been reading Harry's texts from 2013, like this one https://hackpad.com/CWG-plan-early-2013-dXIuZVnmJxP<br>
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[00:14] <Zverik> sorry I'm a bit late :)
''21:00'' '''Zverik''': harry-wood: evening :)<br>
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[00:15] <Zverik> hbogner: wille: mvexel
''21:00'' '''wille''': hi Zverik !<br>
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[00:15] <Zverik> not many of us today
''21:01'' '''harry-wood''': Yeah I was just digging out a more recent "report" form the end of 2014<br>
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[00:15] <Zverik> I wonder if communications@osmf.org is more active
''21:01'' '''harry-wood''': which I posted just to the "management team"<br>
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[00:16] <hbogner> there is communications@osmf.org ?
''21:01'' '''harry-wood''': I'll stick it in a hackpad<br>
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[00:16] <hbogner> i know only about @openstreetmap.org
''21:02'' '''harry-wood''': https://hackpad.com/CWG-report-to-MT-end-of-2014-KqgJ6StZtmY<br>
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[00:16] <Zverik> well, that one then
''21:03'' '''hbogner''': ok, i should read those reports :D<br>
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[00:17] <hbogner> you were talking about moving git osm-cwg to osmfoundation
''21:03'' '''harry-wood''': Since then… a few things didn't happen, but some other things happened quite well<br>
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[00:18] <Zverik> yes, I have some items on the agenda
''21:03'' '''harry-wood''': At the end of that report I said I would do a hugely pro-active thing… which I then didn't get round to at all :-( Still a good idea though<br>
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[00:19] <Zverik> first, why don't we move all of WG's githubs to osmfoundation :)
''21:03'' '''harry-wood''': create a 'communicators' group and try to be more widely open with that<br>
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[00:19] <Zverik> starting with cwg
''21:04'' '''Zverik''': harry-wood: well, I see your ideas for growing CWG is similar to mine: "be more casual" :)<br>
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[00:20] <wille> Zverik: it's a good idea
''21:04'' : ''mvexel [~mvexel@li643-206.members.linode.com] entered the room.''<br>
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[00:20] <hbogner> is it possibel to migrate it all and keep al the issues and similar?
''21:04'' '''Zverik''': Hi mvexel :)<br>
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[00:21] <Zverik> maybe, I'm not sure. There will be one more issue of visibility: whether it's possible to include CWG to the team and not accidentally show them the board tracker
''21:04'' '''mvexel''': hey<br>
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[00:22] <wille> yes, hbogner, it's possible. github has a trasfer button in the settings of each repository
''21:05'' '''harry-wood''': But since then also… we had some more involvement from Mvxell for a while, and he suggested using github more<br>
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[00:22] <Zverik> I think this is more for the board and for mvexel, I've logged the task and will discuss it there
''21:05'' '''harry-wood''': aha speak of the devil :-)<br>
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[00:22] <Zverik> it's great to know you don't oppose this :)
''21:05'' '''mvexel''': yea<br>
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[00:23] <Zverik> too bad Harry isn't here
''21:05'' '''hbogner''': hi mvexel<br>
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[00:24] <hbogner> i answered you there with positive feedback
''21:05'' '''Zverik''': So, let's begin then. The topic is revitalizing the CWG... again<br>
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[00:24] <Zverik> okay then, the next item is how can I join CWG :) Is there a process?
''21:05'' '''mvexel''': hi all<br>
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[00:25] <hbogner> as i was told, you just have to ask :D
''21:06'' '''Zverik''': I have been blogging about OSM news since 2011, but never thought of joining CWG. And most active bloggers, it seems, feel the same way<br>
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[00:25] <Zverik> hbogner: whom?
''21:06'' '''mvexel''': I haven't looked at the github repos for a little while, have they been useful?<br>
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[00:26] <Zverik> (I've been in EWG until now, and they are come-and-go group with no mailing lists or github accounts)
''21:07'' '''harry-wood''': yeah pretty useful. We've kept a few things ticking over there<br>
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[00:27] <hbogner> a year, or so, ago i sent a mail to communication@openstreetmap.org and said i want to help :D then i was added as a recient at that mail and press@osm, and started helping
''21:07'' '''Zverik''': oh, github. Around 20 open issues in three projects there, most are aoutdated and with no follow-up<br>
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[00:28] <hbogner> i'm in local and communication WG's
''21:07'' '''harry-wood''': ( https://github.com/osm-cwg )<br>
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[00:28] <wille> harry added me to the list after I wrote a blog post
''21:07'' '''Zverik''': e.g. what happened with the Urbanist? https://github.com/osm-cwg/tasks/issues/10<br>
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[00:28] <hbogner> i don't remember who adds new people to those mail aliases
''21:08'' '''Zverik''': do we have anybody in Netherlands? https://github.com/osm-cwg/tasks/issues/13<br>
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[00:29] <hbogner> harry or someone else
''21:08'' '''harry-wood''': oh I did that!<br>
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[00:30] <hbogner> Zverik, as i figure you are already in cwg :D
''21:08'' '''harry-wood''': there's an urbanist postcast somewhere<br>
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[00:30] <Zverik> ooookay, is press@osm.org advertised anywhere? I could not find it with google or on our wiki
''21:08'' '''mvexel''': github requires some gardening from time to time<br>
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[00:30] <Zverik> is responding to media a job for CWG?
''21:08'' '''mvexel''': I can connect with someone in NL<br>
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[00:32] <Zverik> I think we need to add it to "Contact", "Press contacts" and "Press" pages, and also to http://www.openstreetmap.org/about
''21:08'' '''mvexel''': Floris, Henk<br>
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[00:32] <hbogner> i try to respond to communication@ and press@ mails when i get them, but there is some spam and some mails end up in spam folders
''21:08'' '''Zverik''': did somebody offer us free imagery and did we accept? https://github.com/osm-cwg/tasks/issues/20<br>
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[00:33] <hbogner> i don't think it is advertised, but we get them anyway :D
''21:08'' '''Zverik''': mvexel: all these are from more than half a year ago<br>
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[00:33] <wille> https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Contact
''21:09'' '''hbogner''': i mostly create github tasks when i notice something i'm not sure i can answer in the best way<br>
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[00:33] <Zverik> without a clear contact point, OSM is even today represented by Steve Coast, which is not too good
''21:09'' '''harry-wood''': yeah. Well I think there's a few missed opportunities there, which we can just close<br>
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[00:33] <hbogner> oh look wille FOUND IT
''21:10'' '''Zverik''': Is communications@ mailing group active?<br>
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[00:33] <hbogner> sorry caps
''21:10'' '''mvexel''': github really works best when everyone monitors what's new through either RSS or email notifications<br>
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[00:33] <Zverik> wille: Thanks
''21:10'' '''mvexel''': github offers both<br>
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[00:34] <wille> but it should be in OSM About page
''21:10'' '''harry-wood''': yes we're using that mailing group<br>
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[00:34] <Zverik> though I am not sure people can make a clear connection betweet OSM and OSMF :)
''21:10'' '''hbogner''': ok we should close all that are outdted and no longer available<br>
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[00:36] <Zverik> so I think one of us has to draft a page with a list of contacts: half for press and half for regular people
''21:11'' '''harry-wood''': and presumably we're now all getting emails about github status changes (if we have notifications on)<br>
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[00:36] <hbogner> we get all kind of questions in press@
''21:11'' '''hbogner''': i'll continue creating tasks as i se them in the mail, and close them when i see the answer<br>
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[00:37] <Zverik> hbogner: can you remember some funny ones? :)
''21:11'' '''harry-wood''': yep. Thanks for your githubbing efforts hbogner<br>
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[00:38] <hbogner> some people complain about map errors, some want their accounts deleted, some se osm as background maps with custom vector overlay overlay and complain about erros in vector data , ....
''21:12'' '''harry-wood''': I think that's useful. But there's a few we just need to close and forget about now I suppose<br>
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[00:38] <hbogner> last one was about error in facebook maps showing switzerland in korea, it was here maps
''21:12'' '''hbogner''': harry-wood, no problem, i do it when i get some free time<br>
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[00:39] <hbogner> that reminds me, i have to ask some friend in facebook what is their progress in testing osm maps
''21:12'' '''hbogner''': i haven't made a changeset in months<br>
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[00:40] <Zverik> isn't facebook already using OSM?
''21:13'' '''harry-wood''': One wider question with this is … does it need to be the same group (CWG) who deal with these kinds of email enquiries AND try to blog and tweet?<br>
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[00:40] <Zverik> at least a part of it
''21:13'' '''Zverik''': Now, to the topic. I see a number of blog posts / tweets / facebook entries / everything else is falling, despite the number of news in OSM constantly rising<br>
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[00:41] <wille_> sorry, my connection is bad
''21:14'' '''wille''': I think we should decide what kind of subjects are important to post on OSMF Blog. I thought it was just to Board/OSMF actions/events. Because of this I haven't proposed more<br>
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[00:41] <hbogner> Zverik, thats what i have to find out
''21:15'' '''Zverik''': (that's why I stopped trying to publish everything to the shtosm)<br>
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[00:41] <hbogner> they said their coworker was doing some testing last year
''21:15'' '''Zverik''': But then, we now have WeeklyOSM in many languages<br>
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[00:41] <hbogner> don't know what was the result
''21:16'' '''Zverik''': So I don't think blogging news should be on CWG. On the other hand, blogging OSMF news (which nobody else can reasonably do) still is<br>
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[00:42] <hbogner> that also reminds me, do we have means to send someone to this conference: https://www.usenix.org/conference/srecon16/call-for-participation
''21:17'' '''Zverik''': And sharing news. E.g. retweeting, linking on facebook etc.<br>
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[00:43] <Zverik> hbogner: I guess you should ask OWG
''21:17'' '''hbogner''': Zverik, yes, before there was weekly on osmblog, and now there is weeklyosm, so we(at least I) figured osm blog is more for OSMF news<br>
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[00:43] <hbogner> tomh, firefishy sound like good candidates :d
''21:17'' '''mvexel''': what is the scope of CWG - is blogging, tweeting, responding to press inquiries it?<br>
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[00:43] <Zverik> hbogner: too bad they all live in London :)
''21:18'' '''mvexel''': just curious<br>
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[00:43] <Zverik> right, another item was about grouptweet and the neccessity of knowing who tweets what
''21:18'' '''Zverik''': harry-wood mentioned attracting members to the groups is hard, mostly because nobody knows what it does, and thus thinks they would be tasked with everything and asap<br>
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[00:44] <Zverik> but without Harry I'm not sure we can come to any conclusion. wille_ said he doesn't need that, and me too
''21:18'' '''hbogner''': more info from board/osmf/working gropups is welcomed on osm blog<br>
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[00:44] <hbogner> yes, harry was doing some testing on that topic
''21:18'' '''harry-wood''': "communication" is too broad a term<br>
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[00:44] <Zverik> it's about trust, and if we don't trust CWG members, then why bother
''21:18'' '''mvexel''': + what is the target audience of the blog. I am assuming not the same as weekly OSM<br>
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[00:47] <Zverik> what else...
''21:19'' '''mvexel''': the great wide world, folks who don't necessarily know a lot about OSM - do they want to hear about working groups<br>
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[00:48] <Zverik> do we want to invite active bloggers (i.e. WeeklyOSM authors) to hang out on CWG meetings?
''21:19'' '''Zverik''': from my notes: "Leave blogging to bloggers, serve as a hub and contact point."<br>
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[00:49] <hbogner> my opinion is that fresh blood can help, like you helped with reactivating us
''21:20'' '''mvexel''': hub and contact point - what does that mean?<br>
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[00:50] <wille> yes, we should
''21:20'' '''Zverik''': that is, the blog (blog.osm.org) is purely for OSMF news<br>
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[00:51] <Zverik> there are drawbacks to that idea: too much people cannot be controlled, and we risk leaking stuff or giving access to blog/twitter to a wrong person
''21:20'' '''harry-wood''': I'm impressed they've kept weeklyOSM going quite a while. These things often appear and last for a spurt of enthusiasm then die out<br>
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[00:53] <hbogner> cwg meeting are a start
''21:20'' '''mvexel''': yea that makes sense<br>
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[00:54] <hbogner> blog is more easy to control, everyone has his/hers own login
''21:20'' '''Zverik''': but it should link to every other news source on osm<br>
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[00:54] <hbogner> twitter is one password, and i get harrys fear of giving everyone the pass
''21:20'' '''Zverik''': so people coming to the blog could easily find other sources, even in their local language<br>
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[00:55] <Zverik> I guess we should investigate that mediawiki plugin
''21:21'' '''Zverik''': currently it is nearly impossible<br>
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[00:55] <Zverik> and if that doesn't work, hire somebody for a month to write us the grouptweet replacement :)
''21:21'' '''hbogner''': Zverik, that is the problem, local teams, chapters, gropups, pages, ...<br>
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[00:55] <hbogner> but blog, facebook, google+, redit, linkedin, ... are better to give more people acces
''21:22'' '''Zverik''': hbogner: if only there were many of these<br>
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[00:57] <hbogner> there is one guy active on google+ osm group, we could invite him here to se if he wants to help :D
''21:22'' '''hbogner''': http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/List_of_OSM_centric_Facebook_accounts http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/List_of_OSM_centric_Twitter_accounts http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Google%2B ...<br>
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[00:58] <Zverik> hbogner: is that an official group?
''21:22'' '''Zverik''': the thing is, wiki doesn't solve communication and discovery issues<br>
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[00:58] <hbogner> Zverik, this one is official, and he posts there often
''21:22'' '''mvexel''': I don't think we can keep up with that<br>
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[00:58] <hbogner> Christian Ledermann
''21:22'' '''mvexel''': nor should we want to<br>
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[00:59] <hbogner> https://plus.google.com/communities/118411499520305090955
''21:23'' '''Zverik''': two minutes ago I didn't know there are lists of twitter accounts in the wiki, for example<br>
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[01:00] <Zverik> then he definitely should be on CWG
''21:23'' '''Zverik''': and I'm reading it since 2011!<br>
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[01:00] <Zverik> hbogner: are you on G+? Can you invite him here next Wednesday?
''21:23'' '''harry-wood''': it's a good list<br>
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[01:00] <hbogner> last time we were talking about blog beeing more official and more formal, but we have so many social channels, not just twitter, and we should manage them all
''21:23'' '''hbogner''': i said it last year, we shouls set up guidelines for social network usage of OpenStreetMap name<br>
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[01:01] <hbogner> Zverik, yes i am, and if all here agree ai will invite him
''21:23'' '''mvexel''': hbogner: how would we enforce<br>
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[01:01] <Zverik> thanks
''21:24'' '''hbogner''': there are some countries that have 3 facebook osm pages<br>
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[01:02] <hbogner> i was reposting blog posts to g+, harry was reposting them to faceboook, and ii guess harry was tweeting them too
''21:24'' '''hbogner''': mvexel, guidelines<br>
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[01:02] <Zverik> so that's it for today, I guess. I'll post the log to osmfoundation.org later, and mail the cwg to count me in
''21:24'' '''mvexel''': I don't think there is too much we can do about it<br>
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[01:02] <hbogner> so couls we agree that any post on blog should be spread to all social networks
''21:24'' '''mvexel''': these things have a tendency to converge anyway<br>
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[01:03] <wille> ok. I have some sugestions of people to join the cwg. I'll post about them later by mail
''21:24'' '''hbogner''': not enforcing right now, just set up guidelnes<br>
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[01:04] <hbogner> ok, until next week talk to you via mail and github
''21:24'' '''harry-wood''': We should add a 'maintainer' column on there I think http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/List_of_OSM_centric_Twitter_accounts<br>
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[01:04] <Zverik> hbogner: yes, cwg posts are very important and should be spread as wide as possible. But there are a lot of other interesting posts that should be advertised more :)
''21:24'' '''mvexel''': that would help<br>
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[01:05] <Zverik> see you next week, and thanks for coming!
''21:25'' '''hbogner''': there are also some pages/groups that have the name "OpenStreetMap" nothing else<br>
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[01:05] <hbogner> Zverik, yes, and that we can do on social media
''21:25'' '''hbogner''': just OpenStreetMap and if you dob't know you can think it's official OSM page/group, etc ..<br>
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[01:05] <wille> see you
''21:26'' '''harry-wood''': some of them could be stamped on by mentioning the OpenStreetMap trademark and saying "you can't call it that". We do actually do that already for iPhone and Android apps on the appstores<br>
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[01:05] <hbogner> not everything can go on blog
''21:26'' '''Zverik''': there are two OpenStreetMap groups in Facebook, both with thousands of followers, for example<br>
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[01:05] <hbogner> ok, bye
''21:27'' '''Zverik''': I'm pretty sure there is a process to merge these<br>
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</poem>
''21:27'' '''mvexel''': I would love for the diaries to be better<br>
 
''21:27'' '''mvexel''': there is so much great community content there<br>
 
''21:27'' '''hbogner''': Zverik, there are two on google plus also, but g+ doesn't merge<br>
 
''21:27'' '''mvexel''': but: spam, no search, no language filter<br>
 
''21:27'' '''Zverik''': mvexel: there is a language filter: http://www.openstreetmap.org/diary/en<br>
 
''21:28'' '''hbogner''': as harry-wood said mentioning osm trademark for some of those<br>
 
''21:28'' '''Zverik''': but spam is a major problem, making reading the rss feed a pain<br>
 
''21:28'' '''mvexel''': and RSS is cool but it's for geeks<br>
 
''21:28'' '''mvexel''': I use it, you use it, but the rest of the internet doesn't<br>
 
''21:29'' '''mvexel''': I didn't even know about the diary language filter - probably a UX problem<br>
 
''21:29'' '''mvexel''': anyway didn't mean to derail the discussion<br>
 
''21:30'' '''mvexel''': just looking for some low hanging fruit to expose the vibrance of the community more directly on OSM.org<br>
 
''21:30'' '''Zverik''': mvexel: where do non-technical people usually get news?<br>
 
''21:30'' '''harry-wood''': So… language filter. That'd be a reasonable thing to suggest to developers I suppose https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues<br>
 
''21:31'' '''Zverik''': the first thing to do with the diaries should be subscriptions to comments<br>
 
''21:31'' '''harry-wood''': oh.. you're saying there *is* a filter? :-)<br>
 
''21:31'' '''mvexel''': and I would really like an upvote / downvote system so spam would be weeded out by the community<br>
 
''21:31'' '''wille''': mvexel: it would be cool to have some "Like" button and a counter of views on blog posts so we could classify it by relevance<br>
 
''21:31'' '''Zverik''': because currently it is very hard to use diaries for discussions<br>
 
''21:31'' '''mvexel''': wille: exactly<br>
 
''21:31'' '''hbogner''': regarding social guidelines, something from 6 months ago : http://pastebin.com/BEcQrwsD<br>
 
''21:32'' '''mvexel''': Zverik: that is a good one too<br>
 
''21:33'' '''Zverik''': the problem with diaries is that we need a programmer with a lot of free time to improve them :)<br>
 
''21:33'' '''mvexel''': or a code sprint<br>
 
''21:33'' '''hbogner''': and that is not going to happen soon<br>
 
''21:33'' '''Zverik''': we all live in different countries, so that would be a challenge :)<br>
 
''21:33'' '''mvexel''': I already have two ideas for code sprints: 1) group feature 2) diaries<br>
 
''21:34'' '''Zverik''': let's talk about @OpenStreetMap twitter<br>
 
''21:34'' '''wille''': mvexel: +1 to sprints!<br>
 
''21:34'' '''harry-wood''': Another problem is that TomH gets super grumpy (like more grumpy than normal) whenever anyone mentions the spam problem :-) Don't know why really. We need him to explain what his proposed solution is that .<br>
 
''21:34'' '''mvexel''': because he's probably the only person who has access to delete it<br>
 
''21:34'' '''mvexel''': that would make me grumpy<br>
 
''21:35'' '''mvexel''': QGIS, Wikipedia, Leaflet, Openlayers all do code sprints. We have hack weekends but it's not quite the same<br>
 
''21:35'' '''Zverik''': the twitter is mostly empty nowadays. I see an attempt to tweet news, but I don't think that's sustainable<br>
 
''21:35'' '''Zverik''': mvexel: what's the difference?<br>
 
''21:35'' '''mvexel''': it's more 'bring your own problem / idea'<br>
 
''21:36'' '''mvexel''': (hack weeekend)<br>
 
''21:36'' '''hbogner''': mvexel, i meant programmer with a lot of free time is not going to nappen, not the code sprint<br>
 
''21:36'' '''mvexel''': in a code sprint, everybody works towards solving the same problem: a new release, a new feature. We had one for API 0.6<br>
 
''21:36'' '''hbogner''': :D<br>
 
''21:37'' '''Zverik''': how do you feel about using @openstreetmap to retweet everything osm-related, so it's like news, but more social?<br>
 
''21:37'' '''mvexel''': anyway derailing the discussion again. I will stew on this a bit. I am sure there are a few companies willing to sponsor something like that<br>
 
''21:37'' '''mvexel''': shuts up and listens<br>
 
''21:38'' '''harry-wood''': Zverik I'd like to do more retweeting. Grouptweet doesn't support proper native retweets though<br>
 
''21:38'' '''harry-wood''': I can only do "RT @bob xxx"<br>
 
''21:38'' '''Zverik''': mvexel: do you have any links to articles on organizing code sprints? Because it doesn't see like a working idea. You would spend a day just explaining osm infrastructure to programmers<br>
 
''21:38'' '''wille''': Zverik: On the last months I have scheduled twitter posts once a day from monday to friday to OpenStreetMap Brazil account. It increased a lot the number of followers<br>
 
''21:38'' '''Zverik''': harry-wood: what is grouptweet?<br>
 
''21:39'' '''mvexel''': some example twitter accounts: https://twitter.com/qgis https://twitter.com/LeafletJS https://twitter.com/Wikipedia https://twitter.com/osgeo<br>
 
''21:39'' '''hbogner''': as I recall there was a problem finding out who posted a gropuptweet, or something like that<br>
 
''21:40'' '''harry-wood''': grouptweet is how we allow a few people to tweet from @OpenStreetMap without all knowing the password<br>
 
''21:40'' '''harry-wood''': I alway tweet via grouptweet<br>
 
''21:40'' '''mvexel''': Zverik: I think if the topic is well contained a group of good devs would not need to know too much context.<br>
 
''21:40'' '''harry-wood''': it also allows us to see *who* tweet what messages<br>
 
''21:41'' '''harry-wood''': works quite well except… no native retweets<br>
 
''21:41'' '''harry-wood''': also we pay for it<br>
 
''21:41'' '''hbogner''': ahaa, so it works<br>
 
''21:43'' '''hbogner''': we should define what is cwg main objective/taks/job<br>
 
''21:43'' '''Zverik''': harry-wood: did you contact grouptweet on retweets issue?<br>
 
''21:43'' '''harry-wood''': I didn't<br>
 
''21:44'' '''harry-wood''': maybe I should, it's true<br>
 
''21:44'' '''hbogner''': there are only few of us and so much to do, that sometimes i feel like not doing it :D<br>
 
''21:45'' '''mvexel''': https://twitter.com/mvexel/status/689926522409385984<br>
 
''21:45'' '''harry-wood''': on spam, TomH shares his design thoughts here: https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/841#issuecomment-63868978 It's a website coding issue to be tackled.<br>
 
''21:45'' '''harry-wood''': Not sure if CWG needs to be involved.<br>
 
''21:46'' '''mvexel''': no not directly<br>
 
''21:46'' '''Zverik''': from what I gatheres, the cwg should be for: 1) publishing osmf news; 2) the main press contact; 3) making other osm news/blogs discoverable; 4) a meeting point for active local communicators to share ideas; 5) encouraging anything written, e.g. documentation and leaflets<br>
 
''21:46'' '''mvexel''': mugs<br>
 
''21:47'' '''harry-wood''': It's a working group about "communication" which is very broad. I wrote a list of communication aspects here: https://hackpad.com/CWG-plan-early-2013-dXIuZVnmJxP#:h=Areas-of-communication:<br>
 
''21:48'' '''harry-wood''': which is too much for a small group of people to do<br>
 
''21:49'' '''harry-wood''': hence we're just keeping the blogs and tweets ticking over and replying to some press enquiries :-)<br>
 
''21:49'' '''Zverik''': yes, that's why my list requires of cwg members very little, and that's what I propose :)<br>
 
''21:49'' '''harry-wood''': your list?<br>
 
''21:50'' '''hbogner''': few lines up harry-wood<br>
 
''21:50'' '''mvexel''': perhaps we can ask other WGs what we can do for them?<br>
 
''21:50'' '''hbogner''': 5 point list<br>
 
''21:51'' '''hbogner''': mvexel, communication with other WGs is good idea<br>
 
''21:51'' '''wille''': mvexel: maybe it would be better if each of us subscribe to another WG list, so we should see what's going on and proposing posts<br>
 
''21:51'' '''Zverik''': but other WGs don't seem eager to publish anything :)<br>
 
''21:52'' '''Zverik''': to the point the OWG even made their own twitter account<br>
 
''21:53'' '''Zverik''': harry-wood: how many people post to @OpenStreetMap? Is it just you and Steve?<br>
 
''21:53'' '''harry-wood''': Well I think they decided that'd be a good idea because otherwise they are breaking the silence on the @OpenStreetMap account to announce some bad news stories (downtime etc)<br>
 
''21:54'' '''harry-wood''': yes. just me really<br>
 
''21:54'' '''Zverik''': how do you feel about letting 10-20 people on the group? :)<br>
 
''21:54'' '''harry-wood''': I'd rather not give 10-20 access suddenly all at once.<br>
 
''21:54'' '''harry-wood''': but also who are these 10-20 people? where are they hiding<br>
 
''21:55'' '''hbogner''': Zverik, get them to joun cwg :D<br>
 
''21:55'' '''hbogner''': *join<br>
 
''21:55'' '''harry-wood''': I've tried to get people to suggest tweets http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Suggested_tweets<br>
 
''21:55'' '''Zverik''': WeeklyOSM would retweet their announcements, SotM WG would write things, people who read a lot of osm-related twitter feeds would retweet everything 10 times a day<br>
 
''21:55'' '''Zverik''': harry-wood: twitter doesn't work like that (re: suggested tweets) :)<br>
 
''21:56'' '''Zverik''': it's "write/rt and forget", not "plan and schedule and have people double-check"<br>
 
''21:56'' '''harry-wood''': The other idea I had was give loads of people permission to schedule tweets which would go out after a period of time, if nobody had corrections/overrides<br>
 
''21:57'' '''mvexel''': harry-wood: does grouptweet support that dynamic<br>
 
''21:57'' '''harry-wood''': nope<br>
 
''21:57'' '''harry-wood''': that would be using some hitherto non-existent tweeting system :-)<br>
 
''21:57'' '''mvexel''': perhaps it's overly democratic :)<br>
 
''21:58'' '''mvexel''': you could set up something with a google spreadsheed and IFTTT I am sure :D<br>
 
''21:58'' '''harry-wood''': I know twitter doen't *really* work like that. people prefer to be a bit more dynamic than editing a wiki page<br>
 
''21:58'' '''harry-wood''': but I hadn't predicted what a *total* failure that approach would be<br>
 
''21:58'' '''harry-wood''': In the time since I set up that wiki page we've had… zero suggested tweets<br>
 
''21:58'' '''harry-wood''': thanks for that OpenStreetMap community :-)<br>
 
''21:58'' '''Zverik''': harry-wood: can I suggest myself and some more active tweeters (mine is @shtosm, but it's mostly in Russian) for @OpenStreetMap, so we could dramatically change its... forgot he word... how it feels and operates and interacts with others?<br>
 
''21:59'' '''wille''': harry-wood: have you used https://tweetdeck.twitter.com/ ? https://tweetdeck.twitter.com/<br>
 
''21:59'' '''Zverik''': with no cross-checking of wording, no scheduling, no suggestions<br>
 
''21:59'' '''harry-wood''': wille: yes. And it has a nice 'teams' feature<br>
 
''21:59'' '''harry-wood''': which *does* support native retweeting<br>
 
''21:59'' '''harry-wood''': and it's free<br>
 
''22:00'' '''harry-wood''': BUT…. <br>
 
''22:00'' '''harry-wood''': no feature to see who sent what<br>
 
''22:00'' '''harry-wood''': we tried it: https://github.com/osm-cwg/tasks/issues/11<br>
 
''22:00'' '''harry-wood''': so that's annoying!<br>
 
''22:01'' '''hbogner''': ahaa, that was tweetdeck<br>
 
''22:02'' '''harry-wood''': Crazy though this is… I have actually almost managed to re-implement grouptweet! : http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Harry_Wood/hack_ideas#Group_tweeting_tool<br>
 
''22:02'' '''mvexel''': sorry folks need to jump on another call<br>
 
''22:02'' '''harry-wood''': Bit more work on that, and we could be adding some funky scheduling and native retweeting features as we need them<br>
 
''22:03'' '''harry-wood''': The "code it yourself" solution<br>
 
''22:05'' '''wille''': harry-wood: good!<br>
 
''22:06'' '''hbogner''': i get up for work in 6 hours so i'll be leaving you soon, but i hope we'll do this again soon, and short witten summary from tonight would be good idea<br>
 
''22:06'' '''Zverik''': so I've just did a quick research, and there are two alternatives to GroupTweet: SproutSocial and MediaFunnel.<br>
 
''22:06'' '''Zverik''': okay, let's wrap this up, but first — is the next Wednesday, the same time, good for you?<br>
 
''22:07'' '''harry-wood''': Zverik: One bit of perspective to add here, I was on CWG throughout the license change years. This was *stressful*. A lot of attention on how OSMF was communicating the license change. At that stage there was no way in hell we could let 10-20 people manage the twitter account. We had to be so careful about what we said and how we said it. It needed some very *trusted* individuals being the voice of the foundation.<br>
 
''22:07'' '''wille''': Zverik: yes<br>
 
''22:07'' '''harry-wood''': These days there's less of that tension, so it feels like throwing open the channels to more contribution is what we need to do. But there's still issues we need to "treat carefully" around<br>
 
''22:07'' '''harry-wood''': "tread carefully" I mean<br>
 
''22:08'' '''Zverik''': harry-wood: there is a trend in russian social media now: websites publish official news and are serious and all that, and social media accounts are much more relaxed, though often making mistakes<br>
 
''22:08'' '''harry-wood''': Areas described in the Comms Guidelines: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19b4QViH5fIau0VBtZhi7AYO1mdftLh34iLIEb5jypu4/edit<br>
 
''22:09'' '''hbogner''': this time, or maby one hour earlyer maybe wouls be fine for me next week<br>
 
''22:09'' '''Zverik''': I'll be busy an hour earlier, so it's either the same time or a different day for me :)<br>
 
''22:11'' '''harry-wood''': This time of day is usually good for me. Don't have many "going out" evening plans lately :-)<br>
 
''22:11'' '''Zverik''': :)<br>
 
''22:11'' '''hbogner''': ok, i'll try to fit in next week<br>
 
''22:12'' '''Zverik''': okay, thanks everyone for coming. I hope we would make a change in coming weeks or months.<br>
 
''22:12'' '''hbogner''': bye from me<br>
 
''22:12'' '''wille''': bye!<br>
 
''22:12'' : ''hbogner left the room (quit: Quit: Pozdrav).''<br>
 
''22:12'' : ''wille left the room (quit: Quit: Page closed).''<br>
 
''22:12'' '''Zverik''': good night or day, whatever your time zone is :)<br>
 
''22:12'' '''harry-wood''': see ya!<br>
 
''22:13'' '''harry-wood''': oh. want me to post the chat transcript?<br>
 
''22:13'' '''Zverik''': harry-wood: I'll do it myself, I have the access :)<br>
 
''22:13'' '''harry-wood''': http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Working_Group_Minutes#Communication_Working_Group<br>
 
''22:14'' '''harry-wood''': but do you have the power of http://harrywood.dev.openstreetmap.org/adiumirc2mediawiki.php<br>
 

Revision as of 19:47, 31 January 2016

Communication Working Group meeting on Wednesday 2016-01-27

Attendees

  • Ilya Zverev
  • Willie Marcel
  • Hrvoje Bogner

Topics

todo

Next Meeting

Wednesday 2016-02-03, 21:00 UTC

IRC log

[23:33] <hbogner> hi
[23:49] <wille> hello
[00:02] <hbogner> ping me when we start
[00:10] <wille> mvexel: Zverik: are you ready?
[00:14] <Zverik> hi everyone
[00:14] <Zverik> sorry I'm a bit late :)
[00:15] <Zverik> hbogner: wille: mvexel
[00:15] <Zverik> not many of us today
[00:15] <Zverik> I wonder if communications@osmf.org is more active
[00:16] <hbogner> there is communications@osmf.org ?
[00:16] <hbogner> i know only about @openstreetmap.org
[00:16] <Zverik> well, that one then
[00:17] <hbogner> you were talking about moving git osm-cwg to osmfoundation
[00:18] <Zverik> yes, I have some items on the agenda
[00:19] <Zverik> first, why don't we move all of WG's githubs to osmfoundation :)
[00:19] <Zverik> starting with cwg
[00:20] <wille> Zverik: it's a good idea
[00:20] <hbogner> is it possibel to migrate it all and keep al the issues and similar?
[00:21] <Zverik> maybe, I'm not sure. There will be one more issue of visibility: whether it's possible to include CWG to the team and not accidentally show them the board tracker
[00:22] <wille> yes, hbogner, it's possible. github has a trasfer button in the settings of each repository
[00:22] <Zverik> I think this is more for the board and for mvexel, I've logged the task and will discuss it there
[00:22] <Zverik> it's great to know you don't oppose this :)
[00:23] <Zverik> too bad Harry isn't here
[00:24] <hbogner> i answered you there with positive feedback
[00:24] <Zverik> okay then, the next item is how can I join CWG :) Is there a process?
[00:25] <hbogner> as i was told, you just have to ask :D
[00:25] <Zverik> hbogner: whom?
[00:26] <Zverik> (I've been in EWG until now, and they are come-and-go group with no mailing lists or github accounts)
[00:27] <hbogner> a year, or so, ago i sent a mail to communication@openstreetmap.org and said i want to help :D then i was added as a recient at that mail and press@osm, and started helping
[00:28] <hbogner> i'm in local and communication WG's
[00:28] <wille> harry added me to the list after I wrote a blog post
[00:28] <hbogner> i don't remember who adds new people to those mail aliases
[00:29] <hbogner> harry or someone else
[00:30] <hbogner> Zverik, as i figure you are already in cwg :D
[00:30] <Zverik> ooookay, is press@osm.org advertised anywhere? I could not find it with google or on our wiki
[00:30] <Zverik> is responding to media a job for CWG?
[00:32] <Zverik> I think we need to add it to "Contact", "Press contacts" and "Press" pages, and also to http://www.openstreetmap.org/about
[00:32] <hbogner> i try to respond to communication@ and press@ mails when i get them, but there is some spam and some mails end up in spam folders
[00:33] <hbogner> i don't think it is advertised, but we get them anyway :D
[00:33] <wille> https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Contact
[00:33] <Zverik> without a clear contact point, OSM is even today represented by Steve Coast, which is not too good
[00:33] <hbogner> oh look wille FOUND IT
[00:33] <hbogner> sorry caps
[00:33] <Zverik> wille: Thanks
[00:34] <wille> but it should be in OSM About page
[00:34] <Zverik> though I am not sure people can make a clear connection betweet OSM and OSMF :)
[00:36] <Zverik> so I think one of us has to draft a page with a list of contacts: half for press and half for regular people
[00:36] <hbogner> we get all kind of questions in press@
[00:37] <Zverik> hbogner: can you remember some funny ones? :)
[00:38] <hbogner> some people complain about map errors, some want their accounts deleted, some se osm as background maps with custom vector overlay overlay and complain about erros in vector data , ....
[00:38] <hbogner> last one was about error in facebook maps showing switzerland in korea, it was here maps
[00:39] <hbogner> that reminds me, i have to ask some friend in facebook what is their progress in testing osm maps
[00:40] <Zverik> isn't facebook already using OSM?
[00:40] <Zverik> at least a part of it
[00:41] <wille_> sorry, my connection is bad
[00:41] <hbogner> Zverik, thats what i have to find out
[00:41] <hbogner> they said their coworker was doing some testing last year
[00:41] <hbogner> don't know what was the result
[00:42] <hbogner> that also reminds me, do we have means to send someone to this conference: https://www.usenix.org/conference/srecon16/call-for-participation
[00:43] <Zverik> hbogner: I guess you should ask OWG
[00:43] <hbogner> tomh, firefishy sound like good candidates :d
[00:43] <Zverik> hbogner: too bad they all live in London :)
[00:43] <Zverik> right, another item was about grouptweet and the neccessity of knowing who tweets what
[00:44] <Zverik> but without Harry I'm not sure we can come to any conclusion. wille_ said he doesn't need that, and me too
[00:44] <hbogner> yes, harry was doing some testing on that topic
[00:44] <Zverik> it's about trust, and if we don't trust CWG members, then why bother
[00:47] <Zverik> what else...
[00:48] <Zverik> do we want to invite active bloggers (i.e. WeeklyOSM authors) to hang out on CWG meetings?
[00:49] <hbogner> my opinion is that fresh blood can help, like you helped with reactivating us
[00:50] <wille> yes, we should
[00:51] <Zverik> there are drawbacks to that idea: too much people cannot be controlled, and we risk leaking stuff or giving access to blog/twitter to a wrong person
[00:53] <hbogner> cwg meeting are a start
[00:54] <hbogner> blog is more easy to control, everyone has his/hers own login
[00:54] <hbogner> twitter is one password, and i get harrys fear of giving everyone the pass
[00:55] <Zverik> I guess we should investigate that mediawiki plugin
[00:55] <Zverik> and if that doesn't work, hire somebody for a month to write us the grouptweet replacement :)
[00:55] <hbogner> but blog, facebook, google+, redit, linkedin, ... are better to give more people acces
[00:57] <hbogner> there is one guy active on google+ osm group, we could invite him here to se if he wants to help :D
[00:58] <Zverik> hbogner: is that an official group?
[00:58] <hbogner> Zverik, this one is official, and he posts there often
[00:58] <hbogner> Christian Ledermann
[00:59] <hbogner> https://plus.google.com/communities/118411499520305090955
[01:00] <Zverik> then he definitely should be on CWG
[01:00] <Zverik> hbogner: are you on G+? Can you invite him here next Wednesday?
[01:00] <hbogner> last time we were talking about blog beeing more official and more formal, but we have so many social channels, not just twitter, and we should manage them all
[01:01] <hbogner> Zverik, yes i am, and if all here agree ai will invite him
[01:01] <Zverik> thanks
[01:02] <hbogner> i was reposting blog posts to g+, harry was reposting them to faceboook, and ii guess harry was tweeting them too
[01:02] <Zverik> so that's it for today, I guess. I'll post the log to osmfoundation.org later, and mail the cwg to count me in
[01:02] <hbogner> so couls we agree that any post on blog should be spread to all social networks
[01:03] <wille> ok. I have some sugestions of people to join the cwg. I'll post about them later by mail
[01:04] <hbogner> ok, until next week talk to you via mail and github
[01:04] <Zverik> hbogner: yes, cwg posts are very important and should be spread as wide as possible. But there are a lot of other interesting posts that should be advertised more :)
[01:05] <Zverik> see you next week, and thanks for coming!
[01:05] <hbogner> Zverik, yes, and that we can do on social media
[01:05] <wille> see you
[01:05] <hbogner> not everything can go on blog
[01:05] <hbogner> ok, bye