Difference between revisions of "CWG meeting 2018-03-08"

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(Start minutes with simple IRC log)
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2018-03-08 20:02:33 dorothea let's start :)
2018-03-08 20:02:33 dorothea let's start :)
2018-03-08 20:02:59 nebulon42 Maybe Severin might join us as he wanted to know how to translate OSMF wiki pages.
2018-03-08 20:02:59 nebulon42 Maybe Severin might join us as he wanted to know how to translate OSMF wiki pages.
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2018-03-08 21:44:22 nebulon42 so I'm off too, have a good evening
2018-03-08 21:44:22 nebulon42 so I'm off too, have a good evening
2018-03-08 21:45:24 nebulon42 or afternoon andrew :)
2018-03-08 21:45:24 nebulon42 or afternoon andrew :)

Revision as of 23:00, 8 March 2018

2018-03-08 20:02:33     dorothea        let's start :)
2018-03-08 20:02:59     nebulon42       Maybe Severin might join us as he wanted to know how to translate OSMF wiki pages.
2018-03-08 20:03:39     dorothea        sure, let
2018-03-08 20:03:52     dorothea        's discuss that topic later then
2018-03-08 20:03:59     nebulon42       sure
2018-03-08 20:04:24     dorothea        are there any action item updates?
2018-03-08 20:05:18     andrew  The one million contributors post is ready to go, Harry has a schedule for it
2018-03-08 20:05:37     dorothea        that's great :)
2018-03-08 20:05:57     dorothea        Tordanik wrote the GSoC blogpost.. Tordanik, would you like to send the link to the CWG list for feedback from other people as well?
2018-03-08 20:06:57     Tordanik        Sure, will do that later today.
2018-03-08 20:07:25     dorothea        great :)
2018-03-08 20:08:00     nebulon42       RSS-button: what's about that?
2018-03-08 20:08:15     andrew  A bunch of the items are harry so maybe we can come back to them
2018-03-08 20:09:52     dorothea        that was an old proposal by me, to have an RSS button visible on the blog (as far as I remember). We provide an RSS feed, but there's no button visible
2018-03-08 20:10:21     andrew  Ah that would be neat
2018-03-08 20:11:13     nebulon42       https://github.com/harry-wood/osmblog-wp-theme/issues/3
2018-03-08 20:11:43     dorothea        yeap :)
2018-03-08 20:12:04     nebulon42       I'll have a look.
2018-03-08 20:12:28     dorothea        thank you :)
2018-03-08 20:12:37     nebulon42       So we should re-invite Tommy for the next meeting then?
2018-03-08 20:12:53     andrew  Good idea
2018-03-08 20:13:04     dorothea        yes
2018-03-08 20:13:41     nebulon42       btw is the date/time issue settled by now?
2018-03-08 20:15:05     dorothea        it seems to be the most convenient date/time according to the doodle, but it's a shame that it doesn't work for Chris (and probably Jinal)
2018-03-08 20:15:50     dorothea        let's stick with it and we can review in a couple of meetings
2018-03-08 20:16:21     nebulon42       yes bad that it does not work for everyone, but I think it is important that there is a regular schedule and we know when it will be
2018-03-08 20:16:35     dorothea        yes, that's true
2018-03-08 20:17:49     dorothea        the first agenda item is related to OSMF wiki new account creation: Upon registration to prompt the user to confirm e-mail before 1st edit, otherwise the edit fails (suggested by Joost via email)
2018-03-08 20:19:00     dorothea        what do you think..? can anyone have a look at it..?
2018-03-08 20:19:06     -->     sev_osm (~severin@ hat den Channel #osm-cwg betreten
2018-03-08 20:19:17     nebulon42       Hi Severin
2018-03-08 20:19:26     dorothea        hi Severin :)
2018-03-08 20:19:56     nebulon42       is it a big issue for new wiki editors?
2018-03-08 20:20:05     nebulon42       I have not noticed it
2018-03-08 20:20:21     sev_osm Hi everybody
2018-03-08 20:20:29     sev_osm Sorry for being late
2018-03-08 20:21:09     <--     andrew (~oftc-webi@2600:1003:b00c:af49:2405:6bf1:e4b2:f950) hat den IRC verlassen (Remote host closed the connection)
2018-03-08 20:21:12     nebulon42       don't worry :)
2018-03-08 20:21:32     nebulon42       we are just discussing the first agenda item on https://pads.ccc.de/g7GLxB7ckz
2018-03-08 20:21:36     dorothea        it might be in cases where the user who registers spends a lot of time editing the first page and then it fails.. Not sure how often this happens. It is probably a nice to have feature
2018-03-08 20:21:48     nebulon42       that is after "action item updates"
2018-03-08 20:22:34     -->     andrew (~oftc-webi@2600:1003:b00c:af49:2405:6bf1:e4b2:f950) hat den Channel #osm-cwg betreten
2018-03-08 20:22:44     nebulon42       if it is a mediawiki feature and only has to be enabled I guess it is easy, otherwise could be hard to do
2018-03-08 20:22:55     -->     diakhasso (~diakhasso@vsr56-1-82-246-46-241.fbx.proxad.net) hat den Channel #osm-cwg betreten
2018-03-08 20:23:00     nebulon42       or should there be a general "warning" text?
2018-03-08 20:24:25     dorothea        maybe a warning on the registration page "please confirm your email first before editing"
2018-03-08 20:24:33     -->     harry-wood (~harry-woo@ hat den Channel #osm-cwg betreten
2018-03-08 20:24:42     dorothea        hi diakhasso and Harry :)
2018-03-08 20:24:50     harry-wood      hello
2018-03-08 20:24:53     Zverik  hi
2018-03-08 20:25:00     diakhasso       Hey all !
2018-03-08 20:25:00     harry-wood      Sorry I forgot I should've been hurrying home for the meeting
2018-03-08 20:25:06     dorothea        hi Ilya :)
2018-03-08 20:25:31     dorothea        we were talking about the first agenda item which is related to OSMF wiki new account creation: Upon registration to prompt the user to confirm e-mail before 1st edit, otherwise the edit fails (suggested by Joost via email)
2018-03-08 20:26:20     harry-wood      The edit fails hey? that's annoying
2018-03-08 20:26:39     dorothea        :)
2018-03-08 20:26:49     <--     andrew (~oftc-webi@2600:1003:b00c:af49:2405:6bf1:e4b2:f950) hat den IRC verlassen (Remote host closed the connection)
2018-03-08 20:27:02     nebulon42       where is the registration page?
2018-03-08 20:27:30     harry-wood      There's probably a mediawiki "System message" we can tweak to make it tell people to confirm their email.
2018-03-08 20:27:43     sev_osm I did not try creating an account yet
2018-03-08 20:27:56     harry-wood      I dont regard this as a high priority problem since there's only a few people who have access to edit the wiki
2018-03-08 20:27:58     dorothea        hm.. actually it is a registration email.. Harry usually creates the accounts and an automatic email is sent
2018-03-08 20:28:27     -->     andrew (~oftc-webi@ hat den Channel #osm-cwg betreten
2018-03-08 20:28:39     andrew  hi all, keep getting cut off
2018-03-08 20:29:00     nebulon42       accounts are invitation only on the OSMF wiki
2018-03-08 20:29:44     harry-wood      yes. Come to think of it, if we "create by email" a new account I'm surprised a confirmation is necessary. Doesn't really make sense.
2018-03-08 20:30:37     nebulon42       I don't remember if I confirmed my e-mail. I guess not.
2018-03-08 20:30:59     nebulon42       That's why I meant I didn't run into the problem.
2018-03-08 20:31:20     nebulon42       are we sure that the OSMF wiki was meant?
2018-03-08 20:31:47     harry-wood      Well we created an account for Joost on there recently
2018-03-08 20:32:05     nebulon42       makes sense :)
2018-03-08 20:33:00     harry-wood      Shall I get him describe to me exactly what went wrong? sounds a bit strange
2018-03-08 20:33:10     nebulon42       that would be great
2018-03-08 20:33:33     harry-wood      More importantly…  when will we switch to your nice new skin design newbulon42?
2018-03-08 20:33:47     andrew  yeah! it looks great
2018-03-08 20:33:58     nebulon42       ah yes, didn't have time lately to work on it
2018-03-08 20:34:19     nebulon42       there is a last "blocker", the interactive editor does not work, don't know why
2018-03-08 20:35:02     nebulon42       try to get that sorted until the next meeting
2018-03-08 20:35:36     harry-wood      I never use the interactive editor myself, but yeah I guess others do
2018-03-08 20:35:53     nebulon42       and there was an issue by simon that the font looks strange: https://github.com/osmfoundation/osmf-mediawiki-skin/issues/6
2018-03-08 20:36:02     nebulon42       anybody noticed something similar?
2018-03-08 20:37:14     harry-wood      I think it's not a problem on a retina screen. I have a snazzy retina screen these days. Are you on retina nubulon?
2018-03-08 20:38:04     nebulon42       only FHD :)
2018-03-08 20:38:18     nebulon42       but might be a Windows problem, maybe I can tweak some font rendering settings
2018-03-08 20:40:24     harry-wood      Maybe it's something we can refine later
2018-03-08 20:40:51     nebulon42       Maybe
2018-03-08 20:41:32     harry-wood      what's next on the agenda?
2018-03-08 20:41:35     dorothea        "Translation of OSMF wiki content (board meeting minutes)"
2018-03-08 20:41:55     nebulon42       yes, before we move on, we have one or two guests today: Severin and diakhasso
2018-03-08 20:42:44     dorothea        welcome :)
2018-03-08 20:43:40     sev_osm Thank you :)
2018-03-08 20:43:52     diakhasso       Thanks dorthea and all
2018-03-08 20:44:03     diakhasso       I am nicolas by the way
2018-03-08 20:44:34     nebulon42       Hi Nicolas
2018-03-08 20:44:46     sev_osm As you may know, I am interested by translating documents from the OSMF wiki into French
2018-03-08 20:45:16     diakhasso       and like Severin interested into translating into French OSMF materials so that they can be better known in Africa and Haiti
2018-03-08 20:45:36     andrew  what do we need to do?
2018-03-08 20:45:43     andrew  sounds like a good idea
2018-03-08 20:47:21     nebulon42       The main OSM wiki does well with multilingual content altough not every page might be available in every language. Does this work equally well for the OSMF wiki?
2018-03-08 20:47:37     sev_osm How woudl this work, I mean both technically + is there a validation process to ensure translations from the EN documents do match with the original text?
2018-03-08 20:48:24     nebulon42       Apart the normal wiki editing process I'm pretty sure that there isn't anything additional in place. It would be in the responsibility of the translator.
2018-03-08 20:48:45     andrew  they would  need to have something that would tell them when something is updated, maybe an RSS feed?
2018-03-08 20:49:03     harry-wood      I think so far we don't have much of the (wiki) website content translated. Just the about page https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/About and maybe one or two others
2018-03-08 20:49:42     harry-wood      implemented as a "/fr" postfix on the page title. This is not a "namespace" set up in the wiki software or anything like that
2018-03-08 20:50:56     harry-wood      But it sort of works ok
2018-03-08 20:51:31     nebulon42       that means it is sort of hacked in?
2018-03-08 20:52:09     dorothea        I have to disappear in 5 minutes for an LWG meeting. Before I do so, first of all many thanks, translating documents is a lot of work. Regarding the minutes, maybe we can add a green box on the top emphasising that the official minutes are in English?
2018-03-08 20:52:20     harry-wood      Well not even that. The page content has "[[About/nl]] [[About/fr]] [[About/de]] [[About/it]] [[About/jp]] [[About/ru]]" written in the wiki text
2018-03-08 20:53:11     harry-wood      Is it the minutes you are interested in translating?
2018-03-08 20:54:02     nebulon42       thanks dorothea
2018-03-08 20:55:15     sev_osm not only the minutes, but also the main documents explaining what the OSMF is, what it does and does not
2018-03-08 20:56:17     nebulon42       So it might be beneficial to put the whole translating business of the OSMF wiki on a new technical basis?
2018-03-08 20:56:25     nebulon42       otherwise we might regret that later on :)
2018-03-08 20:57:04     diakhasso       that's why we are asking the best ways abead for all of us on this one
2018-03-08 20:58:26     harry-wood      Well it might be beneficial to put the whole website on a new technical basis, i.e. move off mediawiki. We'd be better off running a static site with pull request changes really
2018-03-08 20:59:23     nebulon42       Jekyll :)
2018-03-08 20:59:33     harry-wood      yes
2018-03-08 21:00:16     nebulon42       But not everyone is a dev that is comfortable with Github and the like
2018-03-08 21:00:36     harry-wood      We're not really interested in building a heavily interlinked knowledge base. It's mostly just a brochure website, so wiki is an over-engineered solution which is already encouraging a bit too much sprawling mess of content
2018-03-08 21:01:47     harry-wood      The ability for people to easily edit is only of concern when it comes to adding minutes, which happens reasonably regularly from a few different (perhaps non-technical) users
2018-03-08 21:02:31     nebulon42       yes, and that should be flexible enough since putting minutes online is already a chore
2018-03-08 21:02:43     harry-wood      But I think non technical users would be able to dump minutes into an "issue" for others to make a pull request out of.  It would work fine
2018-03-08 21:03:00     nebulon42       we could think of a workaround for sure
2018-03-08 21:03:08     nebulon42       I'd like the simplicity of that one
2018-03-08 21:03:15     -->     planemad (~planemad@ hat den Channel #osm-cwg betreten
2018-03-08 21:03:19     harry-wood      That idea would be a bit of work, but it's the direction to go in eventually I think. 
2018-03-08 21:03:24     sev_osm So would I
2018-03-08 21:04:03     harry-wood      In the meantime we're on a wiki, and we add translations by creating pages with a "/fr" postfix, and linking them at the top
2018-03-08 21:04:10     nebulon42       ok, the most realistic way forward is to keep the existing translation "system" in the short run so we could get started with additional french translations
2018-03-08 21:04:21     harry-wood      yes
2018-03-08 21:04:45     nebulon42       and keep on pushing the other way forward I think
2018-03-08 21:05:10     sev_osm I am used to the wiki process with fr prefix for pages in French like in the OSM wiki
2018-03-08 21:05:43     diakhasso       likewise
2018-03-08 21:06:17     diakhasso       So I guess, what we will need is a wiki account. 
2018-03-08 21:07:25     harry-wood      "is there a validation process to ensure translations from the EN documents do match with the original text?"  ….is still a problem
2018-03-08 21:08:16     nebulon42       unlikely that we can solve that
2018-03-08 21:08:27     andrew  i think we'd just need more eyes on it. is there a french speaking board member who could check?
2018-03-08 21:08:37     diakhasso       how has it been hqndled for other languages so far ? 
2018-03-08 21:08:51     diakhasso       and yep I agree with you andrew
2018-03-08 21:09:35     harry-wood      Well it's less of a problem for key content pages. They're translated and if they're translated wrongly people would tell us over time
2018-03-08 21:10:04     diakhasso       that's right
2018-03-08 21:10:14     harry-wood      but if we want to regularly translate meeting minutes, then this might raise issues with people's words being…. mistranslated
2018-03-08 21:10:50     nebulon42       yes, I agree, maybe only summarise minutes?
2018-03-08 21:10:54     harry-wood      dorothea's suggestion "green box on the top emphasising that the official minutes are in English" would help
2018-03-08 21:12:06     sev_osm OSM FR being now an OSMF oficial chapter, the validation may be done through them
2018-03-08 21:12:16     andrew  that's a good idea harry-wood
2018-03-08 21:13:30     nebulon42       yes, might work via OSM FR
2018-03-08 21:13:31     nebulon42       I think for the minutes we would have to involve the board on the translation issue beforehand
2018-03-08 21:14:30     harry-wood      Yes. I think so too
2018-03-08 21:14:39     diakhasso       likewise
2018-03-08 21:14:45     sev_osm I mean for the stable pages, not the minutes for which the green light seems indeed a good idea
2018-03-08 21:15:18     nebulon42       other pages are not a problem I think
2018-03-08 21:16:20     harry-wood      ok I will consult with the board and we'll discuss  what to do about it from there
2018-03-08 21:16:51     harry-wood      Can we move onto the next agenda item?
2018-03-08 21:17:14     nebulon42       do we wait on the board or let severin and nicolas already start on some other pages?
2018-03-08 21:17:33     harry-wood      yeah
2018-03-08 21:18:07     harry-wood      I'll have to go at in 15 mins. Do we have other urgent items?
2018-03-08 21:18:58     nebulon42       next items are by Andrew?
2018-03-08 21:19:00     andrew  the next one was that we get a lot questions like "can I use the map in my article" or whatever. maybe we should have some kind of canned response
2018-03-08 21:19:58     harry-wood      There has been a few of those came in recently
2018-03-08 21:20:18     nebulon42       would not hurt to have some templates
2018-03-08 21:20:19     andrew  like "If you are just using an image of the map from OpenStreetMap.org or the data in your own map, you are free to do so, just add (c) map contributors" or whatever. "If you are using another version of the map from another site, please refer to their guidelines in addition to adding (c) map contributors" 
2018-03-08 21:20:49     andrew  because some questions were just can i use a screenshot of OSM, which is totally fine. another one was some weather map that was built using OSM data which is a different thing
2018-03-08 21:21:03     harry-wood      Yes. I think we should write a canned response. Where would we keep it? Google doc? wiki page?
2018-03-08 21:21:17     andrew  anywhere is fine with me
2018-03-08 21:21:44     nebulon42       wiki page might be better than Google Doc
2018-03-08 21:22:49     harry-wood      There probably *is* a wiki page with such things. Just need to know what to search for :-)
2018-03-08 21:22:53     andrew  sounds good, we should just make sure nobody edits it with bad stuff
2018-03-08 21:22:56     andrew  haha right harry-wood
2018-03-08 21:23:29     andrew  but i think the key is giving the requester something simple and straightforward so they want to do it and keep doing it :) at least for simple things
2018-03-08 21:23:51     harry-wood      yeah. We should get LWG to cast their eye over the wording too though
2018-03-08 21:23:59     andrew  definitely
2018-03-08 21:24:18     harry-wood      simonpoole was telling us off for not being legally clear in some responses :-)
2018-03-08 21:24:51     andrew  yeah. we'll need to find a balance between legalese and making it clear and easy to read
2018-03-08 21:25:19     nebulon42       that's why I pointed towards legal all the times, so he could be precise :)
2018-03-08 21:26:08     andrew  right, definitely a good idea. but i think a template will help so they don't get as many emails and we can respond quickly
2018-03-08 21:28:08     harry-wood      In fact LWG might have a set of canned responses stored somewhere. We should ask them
2018-03-08 21:28:44     harry-wood      I mean we might not use exactly the same responses but could use some bit and/or share the same place
2018-03-08 21:29:04     nebulon42       joining forces is always good
2018-03-08 21:30:14     harry-wood      Fancy taking the lead on that mission andrew?
2018-03-08 21:31:02     andrew  sure thing
2018-03-08 21:31:36     harry-wood      you could chat to simonpoole (chair of LWG)  about it on IRC. He's on IRC a lot
2018-03-08 21:31:39     andrew  okey doke
2018-03-08 21:32:15     andrew  the next one was related, sending out press releases about some of the blog posts. we have a list of people who have already written about OSM so that might mean they are more likely to write about it
2018-03-08 21:33:03     andrew  I don't think I can send it due to work stuff but I can write the press releases if someone else wants to
2018-03-08 21:33:27     andrew  I figure it's only a small amount of effort, just sending some emails, and may result in some nice articles :)
2018-03-08 21:34:48     harry-wood      Not allowed to send such things for you work account hey?
2018-03-08 21:35:01     harry-wood      Well one of us can help with that I'm sure
2018-03-08 21:35:32     andrew   right, that would be great
2018-03-08 21:35:57     harry-wood      I emailed you all about press releases earlier, saying it hasn't been that successful in the past. But maybe it's a numbers game
2018-03-08 21:35:59     andrew  I think we might want to put a quote from a board member in the press release to
2018-03-08 21:36:15     andrew  oh right, I saw that. yeah, I think maybe just trying a bunch of people might give us some more success
2018-03-08 21:36:42     harry-wood      quotes from board members we should actually try to do more of in our blog posts too
2018-03-08 21:36:50     andrew  good point
2018-03-08 21:37:04     harry-wood      Right…  I have to go I'm afraid
2018-03-08 21:37:08     andrew  I used to do some blogging, to me the best press releases were ones that I could write an article about easily, I could just take quotes and facts directly from it
2018-03-08 21:37:54     andrew  see you later harry-wood!
2018-03-08 21:38:07     nebulon42       bye harry
2018-03-08 21:38:09     harry-wood      I'm over-running my deadlines today. Important one: Time to give the kid a bath :-)
2018-03-08 21:38:17     harry-wood      catch you later
2018-03-08 21:38:21     <--     harry-wood (~harry-woo@ hat den IRC verlassen (Quit: Leaving.)
2018-03-08 21:38:35     nebulon42       is there something left we should discuss?
2018-03-08 21:39:18     andrew  I think that was the last action item. Anyone else have anything?
2018-03-08 21:39:56     nebulon42       no
2018-03-08 21:40:23     nebulon42       Next meeting would be April 12h
2018-03-08 21:41:24     nebulon42       so if there is nothing more coming up, thanks for joining us today Nicolas and Severin
2018-03-08 21:42:33     andrew  yes, thanks!
2018-03-08 21:43:04     diakhasso       thanks all, hope to be with you April 12th and hear back from Board for the translation work
2018-03-08 21:43:19     diakhasso       Excellent evening to all!
2018-03-08 21:44:07     nebulon42       great, progress tends to be a bit slow at OSMF but there is progress :)
2018-03-08 21:44:22     nebulon42       so I'm off too, have a good evening
2018-03-08 21:45:24     nebulon42       or afternoon andrew :)