CWG meeting 2018-03-08

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2018-03-08 20:02:33 dorothea let's start :) 2018-03-08 20:02:59 nebulon42 Maybe Severin might join us as he wanted to know how to translate OSMF wiki pages. 2018-03-08 20:03:39 dorothea sure, let 2018-03-08 20:03:52 dorothea 's discuss that topic later then 2018-03-08 20:03:59 nebulon42 sure 2018-03-08 20:04:24 dorothea are there any action item updates? 2018-03-08 20:05:18 andrew The one million contributors post is ready to go, Harry has a schedule for it 2018-03-08 20:05:37 dorothea that's great :) 2018-03-08 20:05:57 dorothea Tordanik wrote the GSoC blogpost.. Tordanik, would you like to send the link to the CWG list for feedback from other people as well? 2018-03-08 20:06:57 Tordanik Sure, will do that later today. 2018-03-08 20:07:25 dorothea great :) 2018-03-08 20:08:00 nebulon42 RSS-button: what's about that? 2018-03-08 20:08:15 andrew A bunch of the items are harry so maybe we can come back to them 2018-03-08 20:09:52 dorothea that was an old proposal by me, to have an RSS button visible on the blog (as far as I remember). We provide an RSS feed, but there's no button visible 2018-03-08 20:10:21 andrew Ah that would be neat 2018-03-08 20:11:13 nebulon42 2018-03-08 20:11:43 dorothea yeap :) 2018-03-08 20:12:04 nebulon42 I'll have a look. 2018-03-08 20:12:28 dorothea thank you :) 2018-03-08 20:12:37 nebulon42 So we should re-invite Tommy for the next meeting then? 2018-03-08 20:12:53 andrew Good idea 2018-03-08 20:13:04 dorothea yes 2018-03-08 20:13:41 nebulon42 btw is the date/time issue settled by now? 2018-03-08 20:15:05 dorothea it seems to be the most convenient date/time according to the doodle, but it's a shame that it doesn't work for Chris (and probably Jinal) 2018-03-08 20:15:50 dorothea let's stick with it and we can review in a couple of meetings 2018-03-08 20:16:21 nebulon42 yes bad that it does not work for everyone, but I think it is important that there is a regular schedule and we know when it will be 2018-03-08 20:16:35 dorothea yes, that's true 2018-03-08 20:17:49 dorothea the first agenda item is related to OSMF wiki new account creation: Upon registration to prompt the user to confirm e-mail before 1st edit, otherwise the edit fails (suggested by Joost via email) 2018-03-08 20:19:00 dorothea what do you think..? can anyone have a look at it..? 2018-03-08 20:19:06 --> sev_osm (~severin@ hat den Channel #osm-cwg betreten 2018-03-08 20:19:17 nebulon42 Hi Severin 2018-03-08 20:19:26 dorothea hi Severin :) 2018-03-08 20:19:56 nebulon42 is it a big issue for new wiki editors? 2018-03-08 20:20:05 nebulon42 I have not noticed it 2018-03-08 20:20:21 sev_osm Hi everybody 2018-03-08 20:20:29 sev_osm Sorry for being late 2018-03-08 20:21:09 <-- andrew (~oftc-webi@2600:1003:b00c:af49:2405:6bf1:e4b2:f950) hat den IRC verlassen (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-03-08 20:21:12 nebulon42 don't worry :) 2018-03-08 20:21:32 nebulon42 we are just discussing the first agenda item on 2018-03-08 20:21:36 dorothea it might be in cases where the user who registers spends a lot of time editing the first page and then it fails.. Not sure how often this happens. It is probably a nice to have feature 2018-03-08 20:21:48 nebulon42 that is after "action item updates" 2018-03-08 20:22:34 --> andrew (~oftc-webi@2600:1003:b00c:af49:2405:6bf1:e4b2:f950) hat den Channel #osm-cwg betreten 2018-03-08 20:22:44 nebulon42 if it is a mediawiki feature and only has to be enabled I guess it is easy, otherwise could be hard to do 2018-03-08 20:22:55 --> diakhasso ( hat den Channel #osm-cwg betreten 2018-03-08 20:23:00 nebulon42 or should there be a general "warning" text? 2018-03-08 20:24:25 dorothea maybe a warning on the registration page "please confirm your email first before editing" 2018-03-08 20:24:33 --> harry-wood ( hat den Channel #osm-cwg betreten 2018-03-08 20:24:42 dorothea hi diakhasso and Harry :) 2018-03-08 20:24:50 harry-wood hello 2018-03-08 20:24:53 Zverik hi 2018-03-08 20:25:00 diakhasso Hey all ! 2018-03-08 20:25:00 harry-wood Sorry I forgot I should've been hurrying home for the meeting 2018-03-08 20:25:06 dorothea hi Ilya :) 2018-03-08 20:25:31 dorothea we were talking about the first agenda item which is related to OSMF wiki new account creation: Upon registration to prompt the user to confirm e-mail before 1st edit, otherwise the edit fails (suggested by Joost via email) 2018-03-08 20:26:20 harry-wood The edit fails hey? that's annoying 2018-03-08 20:26:39 dorothea :) 2018-03-08 20:26:49 <-- andrew (~oftc-webi@2600:1003:b00c:af49:2405:6bf1:e4b2:f950) hat den IRC verlassen (Remote host closed the connection) 2018-03-08 20:27:02 nebulon42 where is the registration page? 2018-03-08 20:27:30 harry-wood There's probably a mediawiki "System message" we can tweak to make it tell people to confirm their email. 2018-03-08 20:27:43 sev_osm I did not try creating an account yet 2018-03-08 20:27:56 harry-wood I dont regard this as a high priority problem since there's only a few people who have access to edit the wiki 2018-03-08 20:27:58 dorothea hm.. actually it is a registration email.. Harry usually creates the accounts and an automatic email is sent 2018-03-08 20:28:27 --> andrew (~oftc-webi@ hat den Channel #osm-cwg betreten 2018-03-08 20:28:39 andrew hi all, keep getting cut off 2018-03-08 20:29:00 nebulon42 accounts are invitation only on the OSMF wiki 2018-03-08 20:29:44 harry-wood yes. Come to think of it, if we "create by email" a new account I'm surprised a confirmation is necessary. Doesn't really make sense. 2018-03-08 20:30:37 nebulon42 I don't remember if I confirmed my e-mail. I guess not. 2018-03-08 20:30:59 nebulon42 That's why I meant I didn't run into the problem. 2018-03-08 20:31:20 nebulon42 are we sure that the OSMF wiki was meant? 2018-03-08 20:31:47 harry-wood Well we created an account for Joost on there recently 2018-03-08 20:32:05 nebulon42 makes sense :) 2018-03-08 20:33:00 harry-wood Shall I get him describe to me exactly what went wrong? sounds a bit strange 2018-03-08 20:33:10 nebulon42 that would be great 2018-03-08 20:33:33 harry-wood More importantly… when will we switch to your nice new skin design newbulon42? 2018-03-08 20:33:47 andrew yeah! it looks great 2018-03-08 20:33:58 nebulon42 ah yes, didn't have time lately to work on it 2018-03-08 20:34:19 nebulon42 there is a last "blocker", the interactive editor does not work, don't know why 2018-03-08 20:35:02 nebulon42 try to get that sorted until the next meeting 2018-03-08 20:35:36 harry-wood I never use the interactive editor myself, but yeah I guess others do 2018-03-08 20:35:53 nebulon42 and there was an issue by simon that the font looks strange: 2018-03-08 20:36:02 nebulon42 anybody noticed something similar? 2018-03-08 20:37:14 harry-wood I think it's not a problem on a retina screen. I have a snazzy retina screen these days. Are you on retina nubulon? 2018-03-08 20:38:04 nebulon42 only FHD :) 2018-03-08 20:38:18 nebulon42 but might be a Windows problem, maybe I can tweak some font rendering settings 2018-03-08 20:40:24 harry-wood Maybe it's something we can refine later 2018-03-08 20:40:51 nebulon42 Maybe 2018-03-08 20:41:32 harry-wood what's next on the agenda? 2018-03-08 20:41:35 dorothea "Translation of OSMF wiki content (board meeting minutes)" 2018-03-08 20:41:55 nebulon42 yes, before we move on, we have one or two guests today: Severin and diakhasso 2018-03-08 20:42:44 dorothea welcome :) 2018-03-08 20:43:40 sev_osm Thank you :) 2018-03-08 20:43:52 diakhasso Thanks dorthea and all 2018-03-08 20:44:03 diakhasso I am nicolas by the way 2018-03-08 20:44:34 nebulon42 Hi Nicolas 2018-03-08 20:44:46 sev_osm As you may know, I am interested by translating documents from the OSMF wiki into French 2018-03-08 20:45:16 diakhasso and like Severin interested into translating into French OSMF materials so that they can be better known in Africa and Haiti 2018-03-08 20:45:36 andrew what do we need to do? 2018-03-08 20:45:43 andrew sounds like a good idea 2018-03-08 20:47:21 nebulon42 The main OSM wiki does well with multilingual content altough not every page might be available in every language. Does this work equally well for the OSMF wiki? 2018-03-08 20:47:37 sev_osm How woudl this work, I mean both technically + is there a validation process to ensure translations from the EN documents do match with the original text? 2018-03-08 20:48:24 nebulon42 Apart the normal wiki editing process I'm pretty sure that there isn't anything additional in place. It would be in the responsibility of the translator. 2018-03-08 20:48:45 andrew they would need to have something that would tell them when something is updated, maybe an RSS feed? 2018-03-08 20:49:03 harry-wood I think so far we don't have much of the (wiki) website content translated. Just the about page and maybe one or two others 2018-03-08 20:49:42 harry-wood implemented as a "/fr" postfix on the page title. This is not a "namespace" set up in the wiki software or anything like that 2018-03-08 20:50:56 harry-wood But it sort of works ok 2018-03-08 20:51:31 nebulon42 that means it is sort of hacked in? 2018-03-08 20:52:09 dorothea I have to disappear in 5 minutes for an LWG meeting. Before I do so, first of all many thanks, translating documents is a lot of work. Regarding the minutes, maybe we can add a green box on the top emphasising that the official minutes are in English? 2018-03-08 20:52:20 harry-wood Well not even that. The page content has "About/nl About/fr About/de About/it About/jp About/ru" written in the wiki text 2018-03-08 20:53:11 harry-wood Is it the minutes you are interested in translating? 2018-03-08 20:54:02 nebulon42 thanks dorothea 2018-03-08 20:55:15 sev_osm not only the minutes, but also the main documents explaining what the OSMF is, what it does and does not 2018-03-08 20:56:17 nebulon42 So it might be beneficial to put the whole translating business of the OSMF wiki on a new technical basis? 2018-03-08 20:56:25 nebulon42 otherwise we might regret that later on :) 2018-03-08 20:57:04 diakhasso that's why we are asking the best ways abead for all of us on this one 2018-03-08 20:58:26 harry-wood Well it might be beneficial to put the whole website on a new technical basis, i.e. move off mediawiki. We'd be better off running a static site with pull request changes really 2018-03-08 20:59:23 nebulon42 Jekyll :) 2018-03-08 20:59:33 harry-wood yes 2018-03-08 21:00:16 nebulon42 But not everyone is a dev that is comfortable with Github and the like 2018-03-08 21:00:36 harry-wood We're not really interested in building a heavily interlinked knowledge base. It's mostly just a brochure website, so wiki is an over-engineered solution which is already encouraging a bit too much sprawling mess of content 2018-03-08 21:01:47 harry-wood The ability for people to easily edit is only of concern when it comes to adding minutes, which happens reasonably regularly from a few different (perhaps non-technical) users 2018-03-08 21:02:31 nebulon42 yes, and that should be flexible enough since putting minutes online is already a chore 2018-03-08 21:02:43 harry-wood But I think non technical users would be able to dump minutes into an "issue" for others to make a pull request out of. It would work fine 2018-03-08 21:03:00 nebulon42 we could think of a workaround for sure 2018-03-08 21:03:08 nebulon42 I'd like the simplicity of that one 2018-03-08 21:03:15 --> planemad (~planemad@ hat den Channel #osm-cwg betreten 2018-03-08 21:03:19 harry-wood That idea would be a bit of work, but it's the direction to go in eventually I think. 2018-03-08 21:03:24 sev_osm So would I 2018-03-08 21:04:03 harry-wood In the meantime we're on a wiki, and we add translations by creating pages with a "/fr" postfix, and linking them at the top 2018-03-08 21:04:10 nebulon42 ok, the most realistic way forward is to keep the existing translation "system" in the short run so we could get started with additional french translations 2018-03-08 21:04:21 harry-wood yes 2018-03-08 21:04:45 nebulon42 and keep on pushing the other way forward I think 2018-03-08 21:05:10 sev_osm I am used to the wiki process with fr prefix for pages in French like in the OSM wiki 2018-03-08 21:05:43 diakhasso likewise 2018-03-08 21:06:17 diakhasso So I guess, what we will need is a wiki account. 2018-03-08 21:07:25 harry-wood "is there a validation process to ensure translations from the EN documents do match with the original text?" ….is still a problem 2018-03-08 21:08:16 nebulon42 unlikely that we can solve that 2018-03-08 21:08:27 andrew i think we'd just need more eyes on it. is there a french speaking board member who could check? 2018-03-08 21:08:37 diakhasso how has it been hqndled for other languages so far ? 2018-03-08 21:08:51 diakhasso and yep I agree with you andrew 2018-03-08 21:09:35 harry-wood Well it's less of a problem for key content pages. They're translated and if they're translated wrongly people would tell us over time 2018-03-08 21:10:04 diakhasso that's right 2018-03-08 21:10:14 harry-wood but if we want to regularly translate meeting minutes, then this might raise issues with people's words being…. mistranslated 2018-03-08 21:10:50 nebulon42 yes, I agree, maybe only summarise minutes? 2018-03-08 21:10:54 harry-wood dorothea's suggestion "green box on the top emphasising that the official minutes are in English" would help 2018-03-08 21:12:06 sev_osm OSM FR being now an OSMF oficial chapter, the validation may be done through them 2018-03-08 21:12:16 andrew that's a good idea harry-wood 2018-03-08 21:13:30 nebulon42 yes, might work via OSM FR 2018-03-08 21:13:31 nebulon42 I think for the minutes we would have to involve the board on the translation issue beforehand 2018-03-08 21:14:30 harry-wood Yes. I think so too 2018-03-08 21:14:39 diakhasso likewise 2018-03-08 21:14:45 sev_osm I mean for the stable pages, not the minutes for which the green light seems indeed a good idea 2018-03-08 21:15:18 nebulon42 other pages are not a problem I think 2018-03-08 21:16:20 harry-wood ok I will consult with the board and we'll discuss what to do about it from there 2018-03-08 21:16:51 harry-wood Can we move onto the next agenda item? 2018-03-08 21:17:14 nebulon42 do we wait on the board or let severin and nicolas already start on some other pages? 2018-03-08 21:17:33 harry-wood yeah 2018-03-08 21:18:07 harry-wood I'll have to go at in 15 mins. Do we have other urgent items? 2018-03-08 21:18:58 nebulon42 next items are by Andrew? 2018-03-08 21:19:00 andrew the next one was that we get a lot questions like "can I use the map in my article" or whatever. maybe we should have some kind of canned response 2018-03-08 21:19:58 harry-wood There has been a few of those came in recently 2018-03-08 21:20:18 nebulon42 would not hurt to have some templates 2018-03-08 21:20:19 andrew like "If you are just using an image of the map from or the data in your own map, you are free to do so, just add (c) map contributors" or whatever. "If you are using another version of the map from another site, please refer to their guidelines in addition to adding (c) map contributors" 2018-03-08 21:20:49 andrew because some questions were just can i use a screenshot of OSM, which is totally fine. another one was some weather map that was built using OSM data which is a different thing 2018-03-08 21:21:03 harry-wood Yes. I think we should write a canned response. Where would we keep it? Google doc? wiki page? 2018-03-08 21:21:17 andrew anywhere is fine with me 2018-03-08 21:21:44 nebulon42 wiki page might be better than Google Doc 2018-03-08 21:22:49 harry-wood There probably *is* a wiki page with such things. Just need to know what to search for :-) 2018-03-08 21:22:53 andrew sounds good, we should just make sure nobody edits it with bad stuff 2018-03-08 21:22:56 andrew haha right harry-wood 2018-03-08 21:23:29 andrew but i think the key is giving the requester something simple and straightforward so they want to do it and keep doing it :) at least for simple things 2018-03-08 21:23:51 harry-wood yeah. We should get LWG to cast their eye over the wording too though 2018-03-08 21:23:59 andrew definitely 2018-03-08 21:24:18 harry-wood simonpoole was telling us off for not being legally clear in some responses :-) 2018-03-08 21:24:51 andrew yeah. we'll need to find a balance between legalese and making it clear and easy to read 2018-03-08 21:25:19 nebulon42 that's why I pointed towards legal all the times, so he could be precise :) 2018-03-08 21:26:08 andrew right, definitely a good idea. but i think a template will help so they don't get as many emails and we can respond quickly 2018-03-08 21:28:08 harry-wood In fact LWG might have a set of canned responses stored somewhere. We should ask them 2018-03-08 21:28:44 harry-wood I mean we might not use exactly the same responses but could use some bit and/or share the same place 2018-03-08 21:29:04 nebulon42 joining forces is always good 2018-03-08 21:30:14 harry-wood Fancy taking the lead on that mission andrew? 2018-03-08 21:31:02 andrew sure thing 2018-03-08 21:31:36 harry-wood you could chat to simonpoole (chair of LWG) about it on IRC. He's on IRC a lot 2018-03-08 21:31:39 andrew okey doke 2018-03-08 21:32:15 andrew the next one was related, sending out press releases about some of the blog posts. we have a list of people who have already written about OSM so that might mean they are more likely to write about it 2018-03-08 21:33:03 andrew I don't think I can send it due to work stuff but I can write the press releases if someone else wants to 2018-03-08 21:33:27 andrew I figure it's only a small amount of effort, just sending some emails, and may result in some nice articles :) 2018-03-08 21:34:48 harry-wood Not allowed to send such things for you work account hey? 2018-03-08 21:35:01 harry-wood Well one of us can help with that I'm sure 2018-03-08 21:35:32 andrew right, that would be great 2018-03-08 21:35:57 harry-wood I emailed you all about press releases earlier, saying it hasn't been that successful in the past. But maybe it's a numbers game 2018-03-08 21:35:59 andrew I think we might want to put a quote from a board member in the press release to 2018-03-08 21:36:15 andrew oh right, I saw that. yeah, I think maybe just trying a bunch of people might give us some more success 2018-03-08 21:36:42 harry-wood quotes from board members we should actually try to do more of in our blog posts too 2018-03-08 21:36:50 andrew good point 2018-03-08 21:37:04 harry-wood Right… I have to go I'm afraid 2018-03-08 21:37:08 andrew I used to do some blogging, to me the best press releases were ones that I could write an article about easily, I could just take quotes and facts directly from it 2018-03-08 21:37:54 andrew see you later harry-wood! 2018-03-08 21:38:07 nebulon42 bye harry 2018-03-08 21:38:09 harry-wood I'm over-running my deadlines today. Important one: Time to give the kid a bath :-) 2018-03-08 21:38:17 harry-wood catch you later 2018-03-08 21:38:21 <-- harry-wood ( hat den IRC verlassen (Quit: Leaving.) 2018-03-08 21:38:35 nebulon42 is there something left we should discuss? 2018-03-08 21:39:18 andrew I think that was the last action item. Anyone else have anything? 2018-03-08 21:39:56 nebulon42 no 2018-03-08 21:40:23 nebulon42 Next meeting would be April 12h 2018-03-08 21:41:24 nebulon42 so if there is nothing more coming up, thanks for joining us today Nicolas and Severin 2018-03-08 21:42:33 andrew yes, thanks! 2018-03-08 21:43:04 diakhasso thanks all, hope to be with you April 12th and hear back from Board for the translation work 2018-03-08 21:43:19 diakhasso Excellent evening to all! 2018-03-08 21:44:07 nebulon42 great, progress tends to be a bit slow at OSMF but there is progress :) 2018-03-08 21:44:22 nebulon42 so I'm off too, have a good evening 2018-03-08 21:45:24 nebulon42 or afternoon andrew :)