CWG meeting 2018-11-08

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2018-11-08 CWG meeting

Meeting of Communication Working Group on 2018-11-08 on the chaospad

Discussion will take place here, please add your nicks when you join :)

Main organising pad: https://pads.ccc.de/g7GLxB7ckz

Participants:Jinal, Harry, Peda, Dorothea

   Action item updates
   Budget 2019
   Question: 1K ok?
   Last year we decided to ask for 4K, but I don't think we did.
   Potential spending ideas 
   SotM2019 awards
   Stickers for SotM2018 and other SotM conferences
   Suggestion: Stickermule. More costly, but 1) better quality and 2) no delivery costs.  We could order an initial batch of 500 2' stickers ($190) for SotM and then when regional SotM ask, order and have them delivered directly. We have around 10 regional SotMs -- I would also suggest handing over some stickers to the regional conference organisers during the SotM -- help us save resources to send them across. Good idea :) We could hand them to any SotMs that happen after September.- Yes :)
   Flyers for SotM2019 and other SotM conferences
   Decision: 4K. 
   Continue discussion about next steps via email?
   NDAs for existing and new members
   We now have a template NDA that we could use, accepted by the board: https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/w/images/b/b9/Draft_NDA_version_20180911.pdf
   Let's all existing members sign it, and ask new members too.
   Send within 1 week?
   We now have a new CWG image repository with some stock photos for blog-posts etc 
   for the time being on flickr (https://www.flickr.com/photos/161829759@N02/albums - still uploading)


Meeting:
D: Hi Jinal :) We will use this area for chatting, instead of the chatbox, as people wanted to be able to see whether someone was writing. However, it seems that it's still just the 2 of us :)
J: Sorry, missed this notification :) Hello everyone
D: Hi Harry :)
D: Hi Peda :) Shall we start?
P: Heya ;) Let's start, yes
H: Hello
D: hi :)
P: About budget: I thought we asked for 4k and I thought Fred assigned us that much. I'd still argue that we should go for the 4k. We had ideas what to do with it, perhaps we'll find enough time this or comming year and I think it's easier to ask now (and if we don't need it 'give it back') then have to ask for more if we don't have enough :-)
D: Harry and Jinal? What do you think?
H: I remember we started a document somewhere with ideas for things to spend money on. Not sure where that is now though
D: https://paper.dropbox.com/doc/1NU3cTYwz1lOT9u421Lko I think it was this one
P: I'd still like to see some more merchandising articles and I still have some ideas regarding that on my todo list :P Let's aim for 4k ^^
D: I'm ok with 4k. If we go ahead with Sitckermule and decide to support all regional SotMs, if we consider them having ~300 participants, it works about 1K/year just for stickers (5cm*5cm, simple type). Harry?
H: Not sure what the status on flyers these days. Don't think CWG ever managed that process, but we could. (Getting them printed and distributing them). There's stuff we can spend money on for sure. If you're feeling energetic enough... 4K! why not?
D: I had created a flyer in the past but needed some more work (change of font and of cover image, to not be EU-centric). Rory offered to help :)
D: ok, let's go ahead for 4k then :) Maybe exchange some emails about the next steps.
D: no problem Jinal :) Next topic is "NDAs for existing and new members". We now have a template NDA that we could use, accepted by the board: https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/w/images/b/b9/Draft_NDA_version_20180911.pdf
P: Back when this has been discussed at the board it was not 100% clear to me who's concerned with this at all. Does it really apply to CWG, should it apply to CWG? Especially how urgent is it and would it increase the barrier to participate say for new translators?
H: Seems weird. I wonder what secrets they have in mind :-) Was this an email from the board to CWG?
D: No, it was my idea due to the vandalism incident. CWG might occassionally have information that we wouldn't want to be released outside (e..g name of vandal or other info), so I was wondering whether anyone has an objection if we all sign an NDA.
J: Is this something that OSMF is planning for all the working groups?
P: As I understood Simon, this is more for core stuff like OWG, LWG and some of MWG as they have to deal with privacy related data,... the issue with CWG is (as I read it) more a 'volunteerly' idea of Dorothea.
D: yes, it's not a requirement, the board said that each WG can decide whether it's needed and when.
J: Understood!
H: I dont think the name of vandal is a good example, because surely this is public info in the edit histories anyway. We managed to sort of keep a lid on naming the vandal very publicly
D: I meant name, not username :)
H: Oh I see. Did somebody know his real name?
P: Perhaps find a better example first. I don't have something concrete in mind. But we get a bunch of press inquiries and questions from companies,... which might fall under such an NDA. But I'm still not sure if it makes a NDA really needed
H: I can imagine there are organisational secrets contained at board level, for which it might be useful if more people (e.g. CWG) could also discuss, and an NDA would be useful. ...but I guess it that would be a request from the board if they felt it would be useful.
D: I think that we come across information that might be privacy-sensitive or the board would want to stay within the OSMF and I was just thinking of new people that might join (who we might not know very well) and how to prevent any bad situations from arising. I can't think of a very good example from the past, but maybe signing one ourselves (and making it a requirement for new members), will prevent future problems. But it's up to you.
P: My main issue would be new members: It's quite an issue to explain it, sign it, send it back. It increases the barrier to participate. I would be ok to sign it myself. But I wouldn't want it to be a reuqirement for new members to be honest.
J: I understand Dorothea's point about being cautious but as Peda mentioned it would make it harder for folks to join in and participate. Also most of the activities or discussions we do are usually on a public channel, except for the emails. I'm also okay to sign it myself, not sure how complicated it gets for others.
D: maybe not make it a requirement for joining but ask for it a few months later? (letting people who join know about it in advance). I can imagine scenarios where we give someone access to wordpress or another social media account and s/he does something with bad consequences.
J: Makes sense to me, these are all valid concerns. Things do get viral quite easily these days.
D: In any case the NDA probably doesn't prevent things, but it might make people aware about privacy implications and other consequences of what they post.. I don't know.. Do you want to vote? To discuss it in the mailing list? something else? Harry?
H: Let's think about it when there's a use case. I see another mention was an email from Frederik about an NDA for somebody to act as auditor (of the finances). There's things like that where it might be useful, but maybe not for CWG folks by default.
D: maybe not :) Shall we get the opinions from the rest of the people via email? Or can we decide it now that we won't ask for it? We're 4 :) I think the consensus seems to be that we don't need it, and I'm fine with that as well, as long as we discussed it :)
J: I think asking rest of folks via email is a good idea, just to give a chance for others to chime in.
D: sure. They can read the chat as well :) I'll send an email afterwards.
J: Oh yes :)
D: /Jinal left, it's too late for her, we should probably change the meeting time :)
D: the last topic is "We now have a new CWG image repository with some stock photos for blog-posts etc ". The link is https://www.flickr.com/photos/161829759@N02/albums and I'm still uploading images.
H: did you see flickr recently ceased offering hosting beyond 1000 images. Maybe we'll be way under that limit anyway. For my personal account it's a bit of a pain.
D: yeap, I saw it and that account is temporary, I just wanted somewhere to upload them. I think it's still free for non-profits (we probably don't qualify for that), but maybe the paid account is something that can be covered by our budget, if we decide to keep it. I searched for alternatives, but didn't find any where you could easily show the license of the photos.. Feel free to chime in about any options other than self-hosting of course :)
P: I also don't know of another option, although foss-policy-wise flickr is probably not the best option. I would have probably argued for simply using the wiki or so... anyway, what interests me is, where those pictures come from. They look quite professional ...
D: so, I created them online, via a paid account on (let me check) https://mediamodifier.com/ I absoluterly wanted to create a picture for our last blogpost about the RFQ, so I created a bunch of other images as well :)
h: True. we could use the wiki. There's a page called https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Press_images (currently with a lot of rather less professional looking image on it!)
P: Ah ok, nice. Dorothea, that's also where the NC part comes from? (I'm personally no big fan of CC*NC)
D: yes.. I read about their terms and conditions (I can send you all a link), so I thought it best to tag them as NC.. I can also upload them to the wiki, but I think the wiki license is different.
P: Perhaps we should ask Simon? Anyway, that was more like a side note. I like the images! :-)
P: You can choose the license on the wiki, no? And if you can't we can still ask OWG (or Wiki admins) to add appropriate licenses. I don't think this should be holding us back to use the wiki....
H: Yeah you *can* put non-commercial restricted image on the wiki.
D: ah, that's great :)
h: Although it gets interesting when it's somebody elses NC licensed image, and they might come to us angrily with the assumption that OpenStreetMap is commercial. Could be an interesting discussion :-) (all said and done, NC can be a bit of a pain in various ways but... can cross that bridge when we come to it)
D: :) Yes.. I actually prefer the community images (which have a more relaxed license), but maybe having some images like that would be useful for our blogposts.. Not sure if we can post them on Twitter. We could also notify people so they can use them to promote local events. Question: is it ok if I create other images like that with a different site? Can that come out from the CWG budget instead of mine? (it doesn't have to be decided right now of course, just wondering).
P: Erml .. sorry .. but you privately paid for that?
D: yeap. It was not a large amount.. I think around 18 Euros and I created 300-400 images (maybe less, I have not counted) :)
P: Well, anyway, I think you should have asked. And I'm not sure how to handle this *now* but somehow I feel we should reimbure you.
D: no-no, I don't want this to turn into a problem, it was my decision, a small gift to the CWG :)
P: mhm .. ok, thanks :D woodpeck pinged you about LWG meeting btw. Perhaps you could use that to ask LWG again re NDA for CWG? :-)
P: About the images: I wouldn't mind if we spent some money for professional images, but I prefer to have an output with a very liberal licence .. CC0 is best.
D: sorry, I have to go, LWG meeting!
H: We could pay graphics designers to make some images if we have a very specific use for them (e.g. pay somebody to make really nice leaflet design). This is thinking out of the box a bit about using CWG budget. The usual assumption is that it should be possible to find people within the OSM community/connections who would do it for free. (and I worry that people would criticise CWG for not doing it that way) but... thinking outside the box occasionally is good
P: Agreed. -- oh Dorothea left already :D
H: It's a general problem I feel with spending any money actually, that people will question it.
P: Yes, I mean, I would also kind of question it. But it somehow depends for what it is spent exactly and how it is framed. If we *need* a good flyer in lets say 2 months and ask for help and nobody comes up to help, it's a different thing than pay someone without asking around.
h: Indeed
H oh it's just us two now. Did we cover the topics?
P: yes and yes.
H: Any other business?
P: I don't have any, except a note that we might wanna write/tweet abit about AGM and election. But we could also discuss this further in IRC.
H: Gotta go. Time to put the kid to bed! (you have two kids now hey?) it's keeping me busy!
H: So I'll catch you next time/by email