View source for Licensing Working Group/Minutes/2021-02-11

'''OpenStreetMap Foundation, Licensing Working Group - Agenda & Minutes'''<br>
'''February 11th 2021, at 20:00 UTC'''<br>

== Participants ==
* Kathleen Lu ''(chairing)''
* Dermot McNally
* Jim Vidano
* Michael Cheng
* Guillaume Rischard ''(OSMF board)''
* Tom Hummel ''(guest)''

'''Apologies''' 

''Minutes by [https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Dorothea Do<nowiki>rothea Kaz</nowiki>azi]''
== Administrative ==

=== Adoption of past Minutes ===
* [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2021-01-14|2021-01-14]] Accepted.

=== Previous Action Items ===
* 2017-03-02 '''Simon''' to determine existing obligations towards sources listed on the copyright page.
* 2017-05-04 '''All/Simon''' to review import guidelines with regards to licence “approval”.
* 2018-03-08 '''All''' to look at the Working Groups collecting personal information.
* 2018-04-12 '''LWG''' to follow-up on the iD editor, as the number of changesets is now included on the changeset comments thread.
* 2019-01-10 '''Simon''' to draft text to developers of apps related to geo/mapping, having OSM in their names or using variations of our logo.
* 2019-02-14 '''Simon''' to summarise the advice regarding information requests from law enforcement and send it around.
* 2019-12-12 '''Simon''' to discuss trademark registration strategy (more countries, additional classes, etc) with lawdit
* 2020-01-09 '''Simon''' to include text about downstream produced works to the FAQ.
* 2020-03-12 '''Simon''' to send to Mateusz the link with the research by Kathleen on attribution on various apps.
* 2020-09-10 '''Simon''' to set-up call with Kathleen and our UK lawyer about trademarks.
* 2020-10-08 '''Jim''' to work on updating the privacy policy in relation to OSMF's use of a commercial CDN, and Kathleen will have a look at it.
* 2020-10-08 '''Simon''' and Guillaume to look at the translation issue of the copyright policy page.
* 2020-10-08 '''Simon''' to send his Moovit contact to Guillaume.
* 2020-10-08 '''Simon''' to send a summary of which action items need to be done.
* 2020-12-10 '''Guillaume '''to update wiki with BBB link.
* 2020-12-10 '''Guillaume''' to send the action items from the board to the LWG mailing list.
* 2020-12-10 '''Dermot '''to share with the rest of the LWG a document with points from the comments on the current draft.
* 2020-12-10 '''Guillaume''' to provide board's answer on next steps for draft attribution guidelines and information on timing.
* <s>2020-12-10 '''Kathleen''' to email Willy Franck about GeOSM.</s>
* <s>2020-12-10 '''LWG members''' to send nominations about the Software Dispute Resolution panel to the internal LWG mailing list by end of next week, with a couple of sentences on the reasons for each nomination.</s>
* <s>2021-01-14 '''Kathleen''' to forward communication to Microsoft.</s>
* 2021-01-14 '''Guillaume''' to report on Board status re identification of outside counsel
* 2021-01-14 '''Dermot''' to share with the rest of the LWG a document with points from the comments on the current draft.
* 2021-01-14 '''Kathleen''' to share questions to outside counsel
* 2021-01-14 '''LWG''' to share their questions with outside counsel

== Introduction by Tom Hummel ==
{| class="wikitable"
|-
| ''Tom Hummel has applied to become a member of the Licensing Working Group.''
|-
|}

* Mapper.
* German lawyer (mostly labour law) - no background in intellectual property law, as it's not a focus in German education. Would like to know more.
* Got into studying law due to free software.

<u>Comments by LWG members</u>
* Other OSMF interests: Corporate requirements of establishing an entity, relocation out of the UK, questions about employment.
* OSM community is more focused on data. The free-software community is source-code and freedom centric.

''Tom Hummel (guest) was asked to send a signed [https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/w/images/b/b9/Draft_NDA_version_20180911.pdf non-disclosure agreement] to Dorothea. After signing, the LWG will have a vote on his request to join the LWG as a member.''

== Reportage == 

=== Jim - Privacy policy update status ===
{| class="wikitable"
|-
| ''Jim Vidano's (LWG) action item:  updating the [[Privacy_Policy|privacy policy]] in relation to OSMF's use of a commercial Content Delivery Network.''
|-
|}

Current status: reviewing of comments in progress.

=== Need to update LWG-specific membership requirements and Conflict of Interest (CoI) policy on wiki ===

'''Action item''': Kathleen Lu to check LWG-specific membership requirements on the OSMF website and Conflict of Interest (CoI) policy and provide to Dorothea any updates for the website.

== Kathleen - OpenHistoricalMap status ==
''Parts of the minutes on this section were omitted from the public record after request.''
{| class="wikitable"
|-
| ''[https://www.openhistoricalmap.org/ OpenHistoricalMap], a long-time project based on OSM, requested a formal trademark agreement. OpenHistoricalMap is grandfathered under the [[Trademark_Policy_FAQ|Trademark Policy]].''
|-
|}

Draft of proposed agreement circulated for comment.

<u>Co-existence agreement</u>
* Compliance with OSMF [[Trademark_Policy|trademark policy]], which applies to anyone and includes grandfathering clause for older projects.
* Project uses an OSM map.

Public disclosure of co-existence agreement.<br>
To get the registration, sometimes the trademark examiner requires to produce the agreement as a public record.

<u>Suggestions</u>
* Quick look at agreement by Facebook trademark lawyers and confirm whether the agreement is part of a public file wrapper record by default and if there is a way to designate them to not be public.
* Narrow the authorisation - not only about name but also scope.

'''Action item''': Michael Cheng to ask Facebook trademark lawyer and confirm whether the agreement is part of the public file wrapper record by default and if there is a way to designate it to not be public.

== Kathleen - GeOSM status == 
''The topic was discussed in two parts, with some intermittent discussion of other topics.''
{| class="wikitable"
|-
| ''In December 2020 the [[Licensing_Working_Group| Licensing Working Group]] (LWG) received an inquiry regarding [http://geosm.org/ GeOsm] and its trademark status. This was a [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2021-01-14#Kathleen_-_GeoOSM_status| topic]] of the January LWG meeting and Kathleen Lu (LWG) reached to Willy Franck Sob, the main operator of GeOsm. He explained that GeOsm is an expansion of [http://geocameroun.cm/EN/ GeoCameroun], and is now used by 21 African countries. It is a data portal to make open maps for the countries more easily accessible. His hope is that GeOsm will eventually be used by countries all over the world. The LWG suggested that OSMF should come with an agreement with GeOsm. The issue was added to the board [[Board/Minutes/2021-02-12#GeOsm| February mid-month chat]].''
|-
|}

* Summary sent to the board. Allan Mustard (OSMF chairperson) is probably going to take that on and discussed on next mid-month board meeting.
* LWG work paused till we get feedback from the board.

== Attribution guidelines gap list and board status update on outside counsel ==
''The topic was also discussed in two parts, with some intermittent discussion of other topics.''
{| class="wikitable mw-collapsible collapsed" 
|- 
| 
''The [[Licensing_Working_Group| Licensing Working Group]] (LWG) had created [https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Draft_Attribution_Guideline a draft attribution guideline] , which was [https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Draft_Attribution_Guideline/2020v2 subsequently modified by the board]. After meetings of the board with [[Advisory_Board/Minutes/2020-06-22|Corporate Member representatives on attribution]] (Jun and Oct 2020) and with LWG members (Oct 2020), the board version was modified.''

''In December 2020 the board [[Board/Minutes/2020-12#Attribution_Guidelines|decided to]]:''
* ''Publish the current document after giving the [[Licensing_Working_Group|Licensing Working Group]] (LWG) a heads up tonight.''
* ''Ask LWG to summarise the points they still consider open from the comments on that document (gap list) and ask Dermot McNally (LWG member), who has no conflict of interest, to present that report at the next LWG meeting. (# Dermot has been asked and agreed to do it).''
* ''Rory to work with external counsel to try to find the solutions to these issues that are most favourable to us.''

--

''<u>Attribution related meetings, excluding recurring board and LWG meetings</u>''
* ''2020-12-04 [[Board/Minutes/2020-12-04|Board and LWG meeting (Dermot McNally) on draft attribution guidelines]]'' - ''The meeting was set-up in short time. The LWG was invited but only Dermot McNally could participate in such short notice.''
* ''2020-10-15 Board and LWG meeting on draft attribution guidelines''
* ''2020-10-09 Board and AB Corporate Members representatives meeting''
* ''2020-10-02 Session [[Board/Minutes/2020-10-S2S/Make_progress_on_attribution_guidelines_and_enforcement| Make progress on attribution guidelines and enforcement]], during board [[Board/Minutes/2020-10-S2S|screen-to-screen]] October meeting''
* ''2020-06-22 [[Advisory_Board/Minutes/2020-06-22| Board and AB Corporate Members representatives meeting]]''

''<u>Attribution related board minutes</u>''
* ''2021: Jan [[Board/Minutes/2021-01#Attribution_guidelines_update|Attribution guidelines update]]''
* ''2020: Jan [[Board/Minutes/2020-01#Attribution_and_lack_thereof|Attribution and lack thereof]], Apr [[Board/Minutes/2020-04#Update_on_LWG.27s_rewrite_of_attribution_policy|Update on LWG's rewrite of attribution policy]], May [[Board/Minutes/2020-05-06#Status_of_Attribution_policy_.5BGuillaume.5D.5Brequested_by_Allan.5D| Status of Attribution policy]], [[Board/Minutes/2020-05-06#Status_of_Facebook_attribution_issue_on_mobile_.5BMikel.5D_.5Brequested_by_Tobias.5D|Status of Facebook attribution issue on mobile]], Jun [[Board/Minutes/2020-06#Status_of_attribution_guideline| Status]], [[Advisory_Board/Minutes/2020-06-22| Meeting with Corporate Members of the Advisory Board on attribution]], Oct [[Board/Minutes/2020-10-S2S/Make_progress_on_attribution_guidelines_and_enforcement| screen-to-screen discussion]], [[Board/Minutes/2020-10#Attribution_Guidelines_status_update| update]], Nov [[Board/Minutes/2020-11-12#Attribution_guidelines_update| update 1]], [[Board/Minutes/2020-11#Attribution_Guidelines_update| update 2]], Dec [[Board/Minutes/2020-12-04| update]] (informal board chat), [[Board/Minutes/2020-12#Attribution_Guidelines|update]] (public board meeting).''
* ''2019 Oct [[Board/Minutes/2019-10-16#Attribution_by_Facebook| Attribution by Facebook]]. ''

''<u>Attribution guidance related LWG minutes</u>''
* ''2021: [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2021-01-14#Attribution_Guidelines|Jan]]''
* ''2020: [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2020-01-09#.E2.80.9CTwitter_attribution_thread.E2.80.9D| Jan]] (“Twitter attribution thread”), [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2020-02-13#Attribution_guideline| Feb]], [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2020-03-12#Attribution_guideline| Mar]], [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2020-04-09#Attribution| Apr]], [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2020-07-09#Review_Board_Attribution_Guidance| Jul]], 
[[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2020-08-13#Attribution_guideline_feedback| Aug]], [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2020-10-08#Draft_attribution_guideline| Oct]], [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2020-11-12#Newest_draft_of_Attribution_Guidelines_from_this_morning| Nov]]
* ''2019: [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2019-01-10#Update_attribution_guidance| Jan]], [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2019-04-11#Attribution_Guidance| Apr]], [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2019-05-09#Attribution_Guidance| May]], [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2019-06-13#Attribution_Guidance| Jun]], [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2019-07-11#Attribution_Guidance| Jul]], [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2019-08-08#Attribution_Guidance| Aug]], [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2019-09-12#Attribution_Guidance| Sep]], [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2019-10-10#Attribution_Guidance| Oct]], [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2019-11-14#Attribution_Guidance| Nov]], [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2019-12-12#Attribution_Guidance| Dec]]''
* ''2018: [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2018-12-13#Update_attribution_guidance| Dec]]''

''[https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/osmf-talk OSMF members] related discussions:''
* ''Attribution guideline status update: 2019 [https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2019-August/006161.html Aug], [https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2019-September/006197.html Sep], [https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2019-October/006295.html Oct], [https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2019-November/006328.html Nov], [https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2019-December/006521.html Dec]''
* ''Attribution: board letter to Facebook: 2019 [https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2019-October/006243.html Oct], [https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2019-November/006355.html Nov]''
|- 
|}

Gap list: Submit to board?<br>
Legal questions by Kathleen Lu were sent on a separate document to legal@.

The board 
* is waiting for document that Dermot McNally (LWG) has been circulating.
* has person in mind for outside counsel ''(suggested by Allen Gunn - facilitator during board face-to-face annual meetings).''
* has to hire outside counsel. Then they can contact the LWG.

'''Action item''': Dermot McNally to submit the document to the board today.

<u>Suggested process</u>
* Board hires an attorney.
* LWG sends questions of board and LWG to outside counsel.
* Get answers, clarifications and perhaps follow-up questions.
* Discussion of LWG and board about who drafts what.

Other point mentioned:
* Some board members believe there is a certain legal requirement, guiding which principle should be picked.

== Any other business ==

''None.''
== Next Meeting ==
11 March 2021 20:00 UTC on BigBlueButton