View source for Licensing Working Group/Minutes/2022-02-17

<font color="blue">Draft minutes</font>

'''OpenStreetMap Foundation, [[Licensing_Working_Group|Licensing Working Group]] (LWG) - Agenda & Minutes'''<br>
'''17 February 2022, 18:00 UTC '''<br>

== Participants ==
* Kathleen Lu ''(Chairing)''
* Dermot McNally
* Guillaume Rischard ''([https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/w/index.php?title=Board_Member_Bios&oldid=8498 OSMF board])''
* Jim Vidano
* Tom Hummel

''[[Licensing_Working_Group#Who_we_are|LWG member list]]<br>
''Minutes by [https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Dorothea Do<nowiki>rothea Kaz</nowiki>azi]''

== Administrative ==

=== Adoption of past minutes ===
* [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2022-01-13|2022-01-13]] ''Acceptance deferred to the next meeting, as Simon Hughes was not present.''

=== Previous Action Items ===
* [https://docs.google.com/a/osmfoundation.org/document/d/1KyTLbQWSmo1rdoppqlFGTB3by-qVAzjLo_LPml3Ri9Y/edit?usp=sharing 2017-03-02] '''Simon Poole''' to determine existing obligations towards sources listed on the copyright page.
* [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Z2TTrC08dvbPUMZYN8ad--XBC5oyruLOiBxBYd6wD1s/edit?usp=sharing 2017-05-04] '''All/Simon Poole''' to review import guidelines with regards to licence “approval”.
* [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1O_LUtdSNmpyIk4jG0iE831_p1qHatCH_cnZ3L5C2dmU/ 2018-03-08] '''All''' to look at the Working Groups collecting personal information.
* [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZFVNl9kcYIatz2I5Ya_O6mBJhqBBPOJKtbE_GdXifwA/ 2018-04-12] '''LWG''' to follow-up on the iD editor, as the number of changesets is now included on the changeset comments thread.
* [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2019-01-10|2019-01-10]] '''Simon Poole''' to draft text to developers of apps related to geo/mapping, having OSM in their names or using variations of our logo.
* [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2019-02-14|2019-02-14]] '''Simon Poole''' to summarise the advice regarding information requests from law enforcement and send it around.
* [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2019-12-12|2019-12-12]] '''Simon Poole''' to discuss trademark registration strategy (more countries, additional classes, etc) with lawdit
* [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2020-01-09|2020-01-09]] '''Simon Poole''' to include text about downstream produced works to the FAQ.
* [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2020-03-12|2020-03-12]] '''Simon Poole''' to send to Mateusz the link with the research by Kathleen Lu on attribution on various apps.
* [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2020-09-10|2020-09-10]] '''Simon Poole''' to set-up call with Kathleen Lu and our UK lawyer about trademarks.
* [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2020-10-08|2020-10-08]] '''Jim Vidano''' to work on updating the privacy policy in relation to OSMF's use of a commercial CDN, and Kathleen Lu will have a look at it.
* [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2020-10-08|2020-10-08]] '''Simon Poole and Guillaume Rischard''' to look at the translation issue of the copyright policy page.
* [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2020-10-08|2020-10-08]] '''Simon Poole''' to send his Moovit contact to Guillaume Rischard.
* [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2020-10-08|2020-10-08]] '''Simon Poole''' to send a summary of which action items need to be done.
* [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2021-01-14|2021-01-14]] '''Guillaume Rischard''' to report on Board status re identification of outside counsel
* [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2021-02-11|2021-02-11]] '''Kathleen Lu''' to check LWG-specific membership requirements on the OSMF website and Conflict of Interest policy and provide to Dorothea any updates for the website.
* [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2021-03-11|2021-03-11]] '''Guillaume Rischard''' to sort out various email issues - <s>Making sure Dermot McNally is on the main legal mailing issue</s>, making sure everyone is getting OTRS email notifications for the legal queue.
* [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2021-07-08|2021-07-08]] '''Guillaume Rischard''' to meet with Dermot McNally about using OTRS.
* [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2021-07-08|2021-07-08]] '''LWG''' members to provide comment on the HOT draft trademark agreement on the next meeting.
* [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2021-07-08|2021-07-08]] '''Tom Hummel''' to reply to the gdpr_openstreepmap.org_tsfkd@ email.
* [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2021-07-08|2021-07-08]] '''Jim Vidano''' to look at next steps for Opensnowmap.org paperwork after the trademark request has been approved by the board.
* [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2021-07-08|2021-07-08]] '''Dermot McNally''' to ask Tobias for expected outcome regarding the request for change of the text of the standard tile license.
* [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2021-08-12|2021-08-12]] '''Tom Hummel''' to suggest text to be published regarding OSMF's legitimate interest in processing personal data.
* [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2021-08-12|2021-08-12]] '''Dermot McNally''' to reply to Tobias about simplifying the text of the tile licence.
* [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2021-08-12|2021-08-12]] '''Dermot McNally''' to make the pull request on Github openstreemap-website regarding attribution requirements for OSMF tiles
* [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2021-08-12|2021-08-12]] '''Dermot McNally''' to communicate back to contacts regarding Australian data attribution and suggest filling the waiver template.
* [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2021-08-12|2021-08-12]] '''LWG''' to identify OSMF legal texts that might be needed under German law to be in German.
* [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2021-09-09|2021-09-09]] '''Jim Vidano''' to ask Simon Poole whether he has previous emails contacting companies that were not displaying attribution.
* [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2021-09-09|2021-09-09]] '''Guillaume Rischard''' to check past emails (e.g. last year ones related to case in Germany where they settled in court) for any sent to companies not complying with attribution requirements and to send what he finds, including links to the Github repositories with the lists of not complying organisations, to the Signal group.
* [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2021-09-09|2021-09-09]] '''Jim Vidano''' to have create a draft template email for the community to contact organisations regarding non compliance with the attribution guidelines
* [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2021-09-09|2021-09-09]] '''Dermot McNally''' to reply to Jean-Marc Liotier ''(board of directors)'' with the LWG decision to create a template email for minor cases of non-compliance with the attribution guidelines available to the community and the LWG to directly contact bigger companies.
* <s>[[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2021-12-09|2021-12-09]] '''Tom Hummel''' to contact the person who created the OTRS  ticket about printed maps without OSM attribution and ask for more information on this case.</s>
* [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2021-12-09|2021-12-09]] '''Dermot McNally''' to email Martin Koppenhoefer ''(community member)'' asking for information on how he knows that the Canadian company he reported to LWG uses OSM.
* [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2022-01-13|2022-01-13]] '''Simon Hughes''' to download a copy of the  [[Licence/Licence_and_Legal_FAQ|Copyright FAQ page]] and mark anything that is not matching the [[Licence/Attribution_Guidelines|attribution guidelines]] or is confusing and circulate that to the LWG. 
* [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2022-01-13|2022-01-13]] '''Kathleen Lu''' to draft a sentence to update the attribution in videos section of the [[Licence/Attribution_Guidelines|attribution guidelines]] and ask the board to approve in a circular. 

== Welcome to Simon Hughes ==
== Reportage and action item updates ==
=== HOT trademark agreement ===
{| role="presentation" class="wikitable mw-collapsible"
! <b>Background</b>
|-
| OSMF is currently talking with [https://www.hotosm.org/ Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team] (HOT) and is working on a draft agreement regarding granting rights to HOT for the use of [[Trademark_Policy#1.1._The_.E2.80.9COSM_marks.E2.80.9D|OSM marks]].

Related:
* 2021-09 [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2021-09-09#Followup_on_HOT_draft_trademark_agreement|Followup on HOT draft trademark agreement]] ''([[Licensing_Working_Group|Licensing Working Group]])'', [[Board/Minutes/2021-09-10#HOT_draft_trademark_agreement|HOT draft trademark agreement]] ''(mid-month board chat)''
* 2021-08 [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2021-08-12#HOT_draft_trademark_agreement|HOT draft trademark agreement]] ''([[Licensing_Working_Group|Licensing Working Group]])'', [[Board/Minutes/2021-08-13#HOT_trademark_grant|HOT trademark grant]] ''(mid-month board chat)''
* 2021-07 [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2021-07-08#HOT_draft_trademark_agreement_questions|HOT draft trademark agreement questions]] ''([[Licensing_Working_Group|Licensing Working Group]])''
* 2021-07 [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2021-06-10#Humanitarian_OpenStreetMap_Team_.28HOT.29|Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team trademark]] ''([[Licensing_Working_Group|Licensing Working Group]])''
* 2021-07 [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2021-05-13#Humanitarian_OpenStreetMap_Team_.28HOT.29|Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team trademark]] ''([[Licensing_Working_Group|Licensing Working Group]])''
* 2021-07 [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2021-04-08#Humanitarian_OpenStreetMap_Team_.28HOT.29|Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team trademark]] ''([[Licensing_Working_Group|Licensing Working Group]])''
* 2021-07 [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2021-03-11#Humanitarian_OpenStreetMap_Team_.28HOT.29|Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team trademark]] ''([[Licensing_Working_Group|Licensing Working Group]])''
* 2021-02 [[Board/Minutes/2021-02-12#Humanitarian_OSM_and_trademark_agreement_with_HOT|board chat]], [[Board/Minutes/2021-02#Report_on_status_of_HOT_trademark_grant| public board meeting]] and the board [[Board/Minutes/2021-02#2021.2FRes07_Approve_.C2.A31800_for_Lawdit_for_HOT_trademark_grant_consultation|approved £1800 for consultation by Lawdit on the HOT trademark grant]]
* 2021-01-19 HOT and OSMF board members meeting ''(Participants: McCann (OSMF board) and Abelshausen (HOT board))''
* 2021-01-14 HOT board and OSMF board meeting.
* [[Board/Minutes/2020-12-18#Coordination_with_HOT|2020-12]] HOT emailed the OSMF board regarding coordination between OSMF and HOT in order to improve OSM as a global project and suggested meetings of the two boards.
|-
|}

Feedback by Guillaume Rischard ''(Board chairperson)''

Current status: 
* Progressing slowly.
* The board is thinking about what is in for OSMF.
* There have been some suggestion on how to progress.

There will be a [[Board/Minutes/2022-02-S2S|board screen-to-screen meeting]] in ~10 days.

''The discussion was not minuted, after request.''

=== OSMF DMCA agent renewal ===

The OSMF DMCA agent renewal is due in April. While anyone can do this, reimbursement can be tedious. Can the Treasurer take care of this?

* Note that this was done end of January. No need for more action.

== Check OTRS tickets ==
{| role="presentation" class="wikitable"
! <b>About OTRS</b>
|-
|''OTRS is an issue/ticket tracker used by several [[Working_Groups|Working Groups]] of the [[OpenStreetMap Foundation]].''
|-
|}

* Ticket#2021081210000057 — printed maps with false copyright; no response yet
* Ticket#2022011910000082 – interparcel.com
* Ticket#2022012610000149 — https://poster.printmijnstad.nl/editor/city

== Dermot’s Belgian love letter ==
{| role="presentation" class="wikitable mw-collapsible"
! <b>Background</b>
|-
| ''The Belgian OSM community has drafted [[osm:User:Joost_schouppe/Coprightbrieven|letters to people who were not attributing OSM]]. The letters were drafted in a particularly nice and polite tone and were called "Belgian love letters" by members of the Belgian OSM community.''

''The LWG has agreed to''
* ''create English email templates for use by OSM community members to send to companies that do not follow the [[Licence/Attribution_Guidelines|attribution guidelines]] and to''
* ''directly approach bigger companies.''

''Previous LWG minutes''
* ''2022-01-13 [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2022-01-13#About_Belgian_OSM_%22love_letters%22|About Belgian OSM love letters]]''
* ''2021-11-11 [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2021-11-11#Template_email_(regarding_non_compliance_to_attribution)_by_Tom|AOB - Template email (regarding non compliance to attribution)]]''
* ''2021-09-09 [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2021-09-09#LWG_role_in_approaching_major_data_users_about_better_compliance_with_attribution_requirements|LWG role in approaching major data users about better compliance with attribution]]''
* ''2021-08-12 [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2021-08-12#LWG_role_in_approaching_major_data_users_about_better_compliance_with_attribution_requirements|LWG role in approaching major data users about better compliance with attribution requirements requirements]]''
|-
|}

* Dermot has provided a generalised draft based on the Belgian emails to people who have used OSM data without attribution.
* No specific frameworks are mentioned on the generalised draft (e.g. Mapbox API).
* Friendly style kept.

<u>Feedback</u>: A few sentences were a bit awkward.

'''Action items''':
* LWG to add comments to the draft template email by Dermot that the community will be able to send to people who have used OSM data without attribution.
* Dermot to have another look at the draft.

== Needed: Update to Copyright FAQ page to match new attribution guidelines ==
{| role="presentation" class="wikitable"
! <b>Background</b>
|-
| ''There is a need to update the [[Licence/Licence_and_Legal_FAQ|Copyright FAQ page]] to match the  [[Licence/Attribution_Guidelines|Attribution guidelines]].''

''Previous LWG minutes''
* ''2022-01-13 [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2022-01-13#Needed:_Update_to_Copyright_FAQ_page_to_match_new_attribution_guidelines|Needed: Update to Copyright FAQ page to match new attribution guidelines]]''
|-
| ''Topic added by Kathleen Lu.''
|}

=== On changes to [https://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright copyright page] suggested by Simon Hughes (2022-01 action item)=== 
* Suggestions look good.
* The changes will be made with a pull request to the OSM website's repository.

=== On [[Licence/Licence_and_Legal_FAQ|Copyright FAQ page]] translations === 

<u>Pending issue</u>: Changes in the translations of the FAQ page should be considered. Some translations are even older than the current English version.

=== Action items ===
* Guillaume to mention 1) the changes to the [https://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright copyright page] to the board, in case there are any disagreements, 2) that a budget might be requested for translations.
* Dermot to do the pull request for the changes to the [https://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright copyright page].
* The LWG to make edits to the [[Licence/Licence_and_Legal_FAQ|Copyright FAQ page]] and mark anything that is not matching the [[Licence/Attribution_Guidelines|attribution guidelines]] or is confusing and circulate that internally.

== Attribution in videos ==
{| role="presentation" class="wikitable"
! <b>Background</b>
|-
|''Kathleen: Seeing a lot of questions about attribution in videos - should we have more specific guidance for TV/Movies vs online videos, where attribution (and link) could also be in the description of the video instead of or in addition to credits?''

''Kathleen’s recommended edits to the [[Licence/Attribution_Guidelines|attribution guidelines]] in bold:''

''For fictional productions or where the map is not the focus of the production, attribution may be given '''on the map, in end credits, or, if the video is distributed via a digital format that includes a description, within the description. When attributing via the end credits or the description''', the URL to openstreetmap.org/copyright must be included.''

''For incidental footage of a third party map that uses OSM as a source, you must not digitally alter or erase the existing attribution on that map, but you do not need to do anything further (for example, if you film a person typing on their laptop and a map is visible on their laptop screen).''

''For productions where an OpenStreetMap map is a major component of what is shown to users, the attribution should typically appear in a corner of the map, '''in addition to attribution in the end credits or description'''. As long as the credit is on screen long enough to be read, it does not have to remain in view during panning or zooming.''

''Previous LWG minutes''
* ''2022-01-13 [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2022-01-13#Attribution_in_videos|Attribution in videos]]''
|-
| ''Topic added by Kathleen Lu.''
|}

No comments on the edits suggested  by Kathleen to the [[Licence/Attribution_Guidelines|attribution guidelines]] regarding attribution in videos.

'''Action item''': Guillaume to mention the suggested changes to the [[Licence/Attribution_Guidelines|attribution guidelines]] to the board and that if anyone has any objections to create a circular before the 17th of March.

== Inquiry from the Board ==
{| role="presentation" class="wikitable"
! <b>Background</b>
|-
|''The LWG has received the following email by Tobias Knerr (board and [[Communication_Working_Group| Communication Working Group]]):''

''Some community members have recently proposed graphical designs for more prominent attribution, see e.g. the [https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2021-November/008217.html "Made with OpenStreetMap" thread on osmf-talk] – as well as these image suggestions: https://twitter.com/HeikkiVesanto/status/1485939523469070340/photo/1''
 
''Unlike earlier suggestions, these include text elements such as "©OpenStreetMap contributors", which at first glance seems to mean that they meet the legal requirements. The [[Communication_Working_Group| Communication Working Group]] is interested in promoting the idea and encouraging data users to voluntarily give extra visibility to OSM, but before we take steps into this direction, we would like to check that this style of attribution is legally viable. Can you confirm?''
|-
| ''Topic added by Kathleen Lu.''
|}

''For people who are motivated to advertise OSM (not just attribute), do the suggested designs follow the [[Licence/Attribution_Guidelines|attribution guidelines]]?''
* Designs should be clickable in interactive media.
* URL should be added in non-interactive media.

<u>Other point mentioned</u>
* The suggested designs are adequate/more than what is required, which is not a problem.
* Some people who use OSM data treat attribution as an annoying thing that they don't want to do. These designs could be used as "advertising OSM" and something positive.

'''Action items''': Kathleen to write back to Tobias Knerr.

== Agenda and trademark notice review ==
Kathleen can continue to do agendas if the team of Simon Hughes can take over trademark notice review.

== Rescheduling recurring meeting time == 
Kathleen: "Daylight savings in the US is March 13 and in Europe March 27, so March 17 will be our "weird" meeting - 1830 UTC, US participants take note that locally it'll be an hour later! Starting with the April meeting, we'll switch to 1730 UTC, which should put us all on the original local time: 10:30am PT/1:30pm ET/6:30pm GMT/7:30pm CET"
 
Feb 17 - 1830 UTC<br>
Mar 17 - 1830 UTC<br>
Apr 14 - 1730 UTC<br>
May 12 - 1730 UTC<br>
Jun 09 - 1730 UTC<br>
Jul 07 - 1730 UTC<br>
Aug 04 - 1730 UTC<br>
Sep 15 - 1730 UTC<br>
Oct 13 - 1730 UTC<br>
Nov 10 - 1830 UTC<br>
Dec 08 - 1830 UTC<br>

== Trademark notices ==
''Nothing noticeable.

== Any other business ==    
=== Do we want to receive the newsletter of www.ha<nowiki>rald-tho</nowiki>me.de to privacy@osmfoundation.org? ===
''Question by Tom Hummel''

* It seems like spam.
* LWG will unsubscribe.

=== Printed map in Germany without attribution ===
{| role="presentation" class="wikitable mw-collapsible"
! <b>Background</b>
|- 
|''A community member has identified printed maps based on OSM in their home town without attribution. The company claim the copyright to themselves and forbid any usage of the material. 

''TicketID=29303''

''Previous LWG minutes:''
* ''2021-12-09 [[Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2021-12-09#OTRS_ticket_about_printed_maps_without_OSM_attribution|OTRS ticket about printed maps without OSM attribution]]''
|-
|}

The community member who had notified LWG about printed maps of a county in Germany without attribution, has provided some additional information:
* Images of the map, which uses Mapnik style, is surrounded by advertisements with no other content, and below the map is mentioned "All rights reserved" etc.
* Links to the changesets which show how the community member's changes ended in the printed map.
* Information that the company distributing the map creates the county newsletter, while they probably piggyback this map with some advertisements on it. The county might not know what they are doing.

<u>Other point mentioned</u>: [[Board/Minutes/2019-08#Power_of_Attorney_request_from_FOSSGIS|Power of Attorney granted]] to [https://www.fossgis.de/ FOSSGIS] (German [[Local_Chapters| Local Chapter]]) a couple of years ago by the OSMF board was for a different case with printed maps which lacked attribution.

'''Action item''': Tom to check with Falk Zscheile from FOSSGIS (German [[Local_Chapters| Local Chapter]]) if this case is on their radar. If not, the LWG will use Dermot's "love letter".

== Next meeting ==
Thursday 2022-03-17 at 1830 UTC.

''Meeting adjourned 18:55 UTC.''