Licensing Working Group/Minutes/2021-12-09
OpenStreetMap Foundation, Licensing Working Group (LWG) - Agenda & Minutes
9 December 2021, 18:00 UTC
- Kathleen Lu (Chairing)
- Dermot McNally
- Tom Hummel
- Jim Vidano
- Michael Cheng
- Guillaume Rischard (OSMF board)
LWG member list
Minutes by Dorothea Kazazi
Adoption of past minutes
- 2021-11-11 Accepted
Previous Action Items
- 2017-03-02 Simon to determine existing obligations towards sources listed on the copyright page.
- 2017-05-04 All/Simon to review import guidelines with regards to licence “approval”.
- 2018-03-08 All to look at the Working Groups collecting personal information.
- 2018-04-12 LWG to follow-up on the iD editor, as the number of changesets is now included on the changeset comments thread.
- 2019-01-10 Simon to draft text to developers of apps related to geo/mapping, having OSM in their names or using variations of our logo.
- 2019-02-14 Simon to summarise the advice regarding information requests from law enforcement and send it around.
- 2019-12-12 Simon to discuss trademark registration strategy (more countries, additional classes, etc) with lawdit
- 2020-01-09 Simon to include text about downstream produced works to the FAQ.
- 2020-03-12 Simon to send to Mateusz the link with the research by Kathleen on attribution on various apps.
- 2020-09-10 Simon to set-up call with Kathleen and our UK lawyer about trademarks.
- 2020-10-08 Simon and Guillaume to look at the translation issue of the copyright policy page.
- 2020-10-08 Simon to send his Moovit contact to Guillaume.
- 2020-10-08 Simon to send a summary of which action items need to be done.
- 2021-01-14 Guillaume to report on Board status re identification of outside counsel
- 2021-02-11 Kathleen to check LWG-specific membership requirements on the OSMF website and Conflict of Interest policy and provide to Dorothea any updates for the website.
- 2021-03-11 Guillaume to sort out various email issues -
Making sure Dermot is on the main legal mailing issue, making sure everyone is getting OTRS email notifications for the legal queue.
- 2021-07-08 Guillaume to meet with Dermot about using OTRS.
- 2021-07-08 LWG members to provide comment on the HOT draft trademark agreement on the next meeting.
- 2021-07-08 Tom to reply to the gdpr_openstreepmap.org_tsfkd@ email.
- 2021-07-08 Jim to look at next steps for Opensnowmap.org paperwork after the trademark request has been approved by the board.
- 2021-07-08 Dermot to ask Tobias for expected outcome regarding the request for change of the text of the standard tile license.
2021-07-08 Guillaume to ask Simon for more information regarding his question if our trademark was converted to an UK trademark, and is the EU one is still valid.
- 2021-08-12 Tom to suggest text to be published regarding OSMF's legitimate interest in processing personal data.
- 2021-08-12 Dermot to reply to Tobias about simplifying the text of the tile licence.
- 2021-08-12 Dermot to make the pull request on Github openstreemap-website regarding attribution requirements for OSMF tiles
2021-08-12 Tom to ping Lawdit regarding the Japanese trademark process.
- 2021-08-12 Dermot to communicate back to contacts regarding Australian data attribution and suggest filling the waiver template.
- 2021-08-12 LWG to identify OSMF legal texts that might be needed under German law to be in German.
- 2021-09-09 Jim to ask Simon whether he has previous emails contacting companies that were not displaying attribution.
- 2021-09-09 Guillaume to check past emails (e.g. last year ones related to case in Germany where they settled in court) for any sent to companies not complying with attribution requirements and to send what he finds, including links to the Github repositories with the lists of not complying organisations, to the Signal group.
- 2021-09-09 Jim to have create a draft template email for the community to contact organisations regarding non compliance with the attribution guidelines
- 2021-09-09 Dermot to reply to Jean-Marc Liotier (board of directors) with the LWG decision to create a template email for minor cases of non-compliance with the attribution guidelines available to the community and the LWG to directly contact bigger companies.
- 2021-12-09 Tom to contact the person who created the OTRS ticket about printed maps without OSM attribution and ask for more information on this case.
- 2021-12-09 Dermot to email Martin Koppenhoefer (community member) asking for information on how he knows that the Canadian company he reported to LWG uses OSM.
2021-12-09 Dorothea to invite Simon Hughes to January meeting.
Reportage and action item updates
No action item updates mentioned.
HOT trademark agreement - Kathleen
Kathleen has emailed the rest of the LWG.
Check OTRS tickets
|OTRS is an issue/ticket tracker used by several Working Groups of the OpenStreetMap Foundation.|
- Kathleen has cleared a lot of tickets but there are still many left.
- The Communication Working Group (CWG) has a template answer for emails by academics requesting permission.
- Decision to close OTRS tickets which were answered by the CWG.
LWG template answers
- Live in OTRS.
- Need admin access to create OTRS templates and Tom Hughes to add them.
- Tom Hummel reported issue in viewing OTRS templates on OTRS.
OTRS tickets with information about moving OSMF to EU
|The OSMF board is considering relocating the OSMF to the EU and is consulting the members for feedback, advice and whether they’ve missed anything. The board has received emails from people in various countries and some emails were sent directly to the LWG or the LWG was cc'ed by the senders.
More information on the subject of potential relocation:
Comments by members on the osmf-talk* mailing list: thread 1, thread 2.
* osmf-talk is the mailing list for OpenStreetMap Foundation members (Join the Foundation). All past messages are available here.
Please note that there were extensive discussions about Brexit and its effects by the Licensing Working Group (LWG) (search the LWG minutes for "Brexit") and the issue was also previously discussed by OSMF members and the board.
Recent board discussions about relocation
- Discussion whether these emails need a reply.
- Decision to close the ones that are not already closed.
OTRS ticket about printed maps without OSM attribution
|A community member has identified printed maps based on OSM in their home town without attribution. The company claim the copyright to themselves and forbid any usage of the material.
How much responsibility does LWG want to take for contacting companies or individuals that are not in compliance?
LWG has previously said that it will contact big companies that do not comply and for small companies suggest to the community email templates to use, based on the Belgian love letter.
On the specific case
- Commercial exploitation is explicitly allowed by Open Database License (ODbL) and putting your own copyright is also explicitly allowed.
- Maps seem printed in official community gazettes.
- Tom to contact the person who created the ticket and ask for more information on this case.
- Dermot to produce draft email templates.
Reported suspicion of copyright infringement
|Related to email by Martin Koppenhoefer to the LWG on 2021-11-22. A Canadian company appears to be selling printed map content without attribution (final goods not seen, but no mention on website)|
- We are not sure if they are based on OSM.
- The maps on the Etsy shop.
- do not seem like Martin's maps.
- are not very detailed.
- Products shipped from China.
Action item: Dermot to email Martin Koppenhoefer asking for information on how he knows that the Canadian company he reported to LWG uses OSM.
|Martin Raifer (current iD editor developer/maintainer) emailed the LWG on December 1st, and included a question if the current opt-out mechanism for loading icons on iD from external providers should be changed to an opt-in mechanism.
- The iD editor loads images from external 3rd parties, such as Facebook.
Email answer was supplied by Kathleen (recap by Kathleen):
- We believe opt-out is justified due to the utility: we're not tracking people for advertising/fun and not even tracking them but loading images from the internet because they are useful to see them in iD.
- There seems to be no reason to change this, such as a change in law.
On IP data obtained by 3rd parties that host images that iD displays
- The operator of any service that chooses to have opt-in content from an external place has to have an opinion about that content.
- Hypothetical example of behind-the-scene switch resulting in offensive content being displayed.
- Comment that it's not a privacy issue.
- Recent court cases in Germany: if entity serving the images collects the IP data to form profiles for market research, we need to have opt-in.
- It is illogical that a big company does market profiling this way: inefficient, waste of resources, no such evidence.
- Companies prefer to use unique identifiers other than IPs.
- The 3rd parties will get such information from the image request by the browser, such as browser footprints.
General points mentioned during discussion
- Original question was if it would be better to have opt-in for iD 3rd party data.
- You would never have to explain this to a judge. An EU privacy regulator would have to decide to look at OSM and then they would probably just ask Facebook if they are building profiles based on the image requests.
Request for broad details for the following small part on the decision.
Endorse the status quo in the absence of any indication from the board.
Any Other Business
Application by Simon Hughes to join LWG
Question by LWG member whether the details on the draft November minutes are ok to be disclosed. Agreement to disclose.
Action item: Dorothea to invite Simon Hughes to January meeting.
Michael Cheng’s status update
Michael Cheng asked to be moved to the inactive roster and stay subscribed on the LWG mailing list if the rest of the LWG members are ok.
13 January 2022 18:00 UTC on BigBlueButton video room, unless rescheduled.
The minutes will be at Licensing_Working_Group/Minutes/2022-01-13.