CWG meeting 2012-09-03
Meeting of Communication Working Group on Monday 3rd Sept 2012
Just Harry and RichardW
License switchover comms preparations
21:00 harry-wood: It's CWG o'clock
21:01 rweait1: hello.
21:01 harry-wood: Hi rweait1. And do we have RichardF?
21:02 harry-wood: guess not
21:02 harry-wood: still on holiday
21:02 rweait1: So, "what's new?"
21:02 harry-wood: Henk is probably running around like a headless chicken doing SOTM stuff
21:03 harry-wood: Somebody commented on the osmf blog just now. " 'ODbL licensed, putting us on a secure footing for the future.' LOL what a crap "
21:04 rweait1: Sure. Every time we take a step forward, the trolls come out to play.
21:04 harry-wood: well I took that to be sufficiently bluntly rude and unconstructive that I just trashed the comment
21:04 rweait1: Fair enough.
21:05 harry-wood: but we there's an unclear fuzzy line between that and reasonable dissent which we should allow and try to respond to
21:05 rweait1: I think the entire community has done so much outreach, that there is a limit to the number of uninformed questions we'll get.
21:06 rweait1: The license change has been posted everywhere forever.
21:06 harry-wood: Yes although there's nuances of the ODBl which will have a light shined on them soon
21:07 rweait1: Sure. Once it's in use, the edge cases will become clearer.
21:07 rweait1: I find it odd that the commmunity has resisted discussion of those edge cases and guidlines on the wiki and lists.
21:07 rweait1: Ah well.
21:08 harry-wood: The information is all there, but to be honest I'll have to re-read some of it myself
21:08 rweait1: I haven't had a look at the recent minutes. Anything on the table for CWG?
21:09 harry-wood: Well there's a LOT of comms stuff which we're in charge of I guess, although past couple of days Mike Collinson has been chipping in on quite a few of the things
21:09 harry-wood: (or reminding me we already have a lot of it)
21:10 harry-wood: TODO list is here: REDACTED - preparation docs not for public yet 21:11 harry-wood: We need to compose a mailing list and blog announcement for the moment of switchover
21:12 rweait1: Well we're being harmed by the board here, then.
21:13 rweait1: If they are dead set to do their "all singing all dancing" nonsense rather than choose a sensible timeline, we've not time to announce in advance.
21:13 harry-wood: Ah well I guess we're still awaiting the outcome of that debate
21:14 rweait1: Does my connection seem "laggy" to you?
21:14 harry-wood: can't tell particularly
21:17 rweait1: Been having intermittent connection issues today.
21:17 harry-wood: I'm not convinced there's any need to announce anything advance that hasn't already been adequately announced in advance
21:17 rweait1: Okay, so with no future set-date, we can't say, "hey, it will be $date"
21:17 rweait1: So do we just wait for the day then draft it?
21:18 rweait1: draft now and fill in the date?
21:18 harry-wood: The announcement. We can draft it now
21:19 rweait1: guidance for mappers: Shouldn't be any.
21:19 rweait1: guidance for consumers: depends on how they consume, I suppose.
21:19 rweait1: guidance for service providers: same.
21:19 rweait1: or do we bother?
21:20 harry-wood: We do have a draft guidance for data distributors
21:20 harry-wood: Which I think RichardF put together
21:20 harry-wood: This one: REDACTED email draft doc not for public
21:22 harry-wood: I suppose we need to build a list of email addresses to fire that to
21:22 rweait1: Better to provide a way for them to opt-in for that email, perhaps?
21:22 rweait1: A link from planet, maybe?
21:23 harry-wood: Well I'm not imagining it to be a very big list
21:23 rweait1: Anybody who goes looking for new planets should be aware of the issues...
21:23 rweait1: Well, that's just it. We don't force them to register, so how can we find them all / know them all?
21:26 harry-wood: Well I was never fully sure what the idea was with this actually
21:26 harry-wood: I can well imagine that CloudMade for example would happily ignore the license change and not even notice it for a few months if we didn't make sure they were paying attention :-)
21:27 harry-wood: But there's probably only between 5 and 10 companies which redistribute OSM data on that kind of explicit basis
21:27 harry-wood: is it just those people we're emailing? not sure
21:28 rweait1: hmm.
21:29 rweait1: See, I don't think anybody has to worry about the license change if they don't update their data. And they can't update to ODbL data without changing their settings; it'll be in a new place, iirc.
21:30 rweait1: so their cron jobs will just die.
21:30 harry-wood: yes correct
21:30 rweait1: So maybe planet is the perfect place for this notice?
21:30 rweait1: plus, blog and the lists...
21:30 harry-wood: hmm a note on the planet.openstreetmap.org HTML page you mean?
21:31 harry-wood: i wonder if the diffs will move back to their original location
21:32 rweait1: yup.
21:32 harry-wood: ok
21:32 rweait1: Well, they'll move, but I think moving to a new place is better.
21:32 rweait1: planet.osm.org/current, or something...
21:32 harry-wood: someone needs to decide that
21:32 rweait1: :-)
21:33 rweait1: A nice <blink><marquee> tag for the notice "Want the latest data? Understand the license change" should do the trick."
21:34 rweait1: OWG may have an opinion on the new location...
21:34 harry-wood: yep. "someone needs to decide" meaning OWG
21:35 harry-wood: I think Matt set up the new location last time
21:35 harry-wood: I'll add this to the TODO list
21:36 rweait1: I'll send a quick note to OWG / CWG.
21:36 harry-wood: ok. Point them at the TODO list. There's a section "Deployments" which was everything I can think of that needs OWG work
21:40 harry-wood: I'm not sure if I find the new credit advice very clear really. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Legal_FAQ/ODbL#3a._I_would_like_to_use_OpenStreetMap_maps._How_should_I_credit_you.3F
21:41 harry-wood: I mean it could give a full example of what a typical credit text would be for a basic slippy map use case
21:41 harry-wood: but maybe there are too many other use cases
21:41 rweait1: I find it clear, but perhaps it needs some illustrated examples.
21:42 harry-wood: Some illustrated examples would be good. In fact some illustrated examples would've been good with this old license :-)
21:43 harry-wood: Maybe I'll add that to the TODO list
21:47 harry-wood: Right. I have half my concentration on getting ready to five a workshop tomorrow at the Society Of Cartographers conference.
21:47 harry-wood: I'd better get back to working on that
21:48 harry-wood: I guess tomorrow evening (or soon) I will start a draft of the actual announcement, unless someone else wants to do that
21:49 rweait1: Okay, take care.
21:49 harry-wood: Alright. CWG over and out.