CWG meeting 2019-02-12
CWG meeting 2019-02-12
2019-02-12 CWG meeting on cwg chaospad (pads.ccc.de) Countdown: https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20190212T17&p0=136
Discussion will take place here, please add your nicks below when you join :)
Participants: Rory, Harry, Jinal, Andrew, Chris, Dorothea
Add translations of static OSMF pages on the Foundation website, with disclaimer
Do topical/seasonal blog posts
Give Eduardo access to blog, to add translations
Nebulon42 to restyle footer
Rory to ask Frederik about OTRS
Rory to ask Sven Geggus about RTL implementation on the Foundation's website.
Rory to ask the MWG for feedback regarding "CWG to do OSMF news posts for members".
What were they thinking of in the original suggestion https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2019-February/082062.html,
would the blog post feed be OK,
can they subscribe people, etc.
And _can_ we subscribe people to a new mailing list they didn't agree to before!
Harry to set-up Eduardo with a Wordpress "contributor" user account (for the blog), email him to ask him to set a secure password and copy in firefishy.
Jinal to look into open-source options for people to subscribe to our Wordpress blog posts.
Dorothea to email Ura and followingly to send them the sticker templates for feedback
All: Contribute to topical/seasonal Blog Post ideas: https://pads.ccc.de/4U1Bnm8fCv
?: Ask Wille about brazillian portuguese and portuguese-portuguese translations on the blog
On implementation of right-to-left language support on www.osmfoundation.org. Contacted an active Iranian OSMer who has dabbled with the OSM wiki but could not help. For the time being, the translation of the OSMF "about" page to Farsi was added to the OSM wiki: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Fa:Foundation
OSMF website footer: Nebulon42 offered to restyle it.
Horizontal "sticker" designs: https://www.flickr.com/photos/161829759@N02/46900071981/ and https://www.flickr.com/photos/161829759@N02/45985408915
Using/setting up a ticketing software (suggestion by Rory).
Yes/no/other suggestions to improve?
Translations of blog posts: Eduardo requested to have access to the blog, in order to add translations in Portuguese.
Decide on requirements to give access so that we have a future guide instead of deciding on a case by case basis?
OSMF/MWG wants CWG to do OSMF news posts for members.
Design of stickers - Ura https://ura.design/ is a design studio with OSMers who have offered to help CWG in general. Suggestion for initial contact and send them the template files for stickers for review/changes.
Examples of templates' output: https://www.flickr.com/photos/161829759@N02/46900071981/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/161829759@N02/45985408915
Translations of static OSMF pages (could be added with a disclaimer on top - we might have a problem with right-to-left languages)
Do we agree to try to add translations of static OSMF pages? Yes/No?
If yes, please enrich (or comment) to the list of pages that we want to be translated
Reaching out options. We have to ask them to contact us first, in order to coordinate people who might want to translate the same document.
Local chapter representatives
Local community channels
What do we prefer?
holiday blog posts?
other ideas for blog posts?
D: hi everyone :)
D: A "reportage" section was added to the top of the agenda. I don't know if you had time to read it. Any comments/objections/questions..?
R: In a few weeks is the Karlsruhe Hack Weekend, and one of the local OSMers did the German style (Sven geggus), which involved lots of RTL language stuff. I could ask him about RTL langauge stuff?
D: ah, that would be great, thanks! :)
D: as you might have read nebulon42 offered to restyle the footer of the website.
H: Last year someone asked me to add some Persian translations to the wiki. Right-to-left... very confusing :-) ( https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Main_Page?uselang=fa )
D: yeap..! :)
R: Sven had lots of problems mixing RTL & LTR. Lots of Unicode fun! ??
D: my impression is that if we copy the Farsi language templates to the Foundation website (from the OSM wiki), it might work, but I have no idea if my imperssion is correct or how to do that
H: Hmm not so sure. The language templates are very complicated, and designed to work with a language prefix XX:Name We used a simpler approach on the osmfoundation.org wiki. The About page is a good example: https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/About
D: since we talk about translations, maybe start with the last agenda item? "Translations of static OSMF pages "?
D: Do we agree to try to add translations of static OSMF pages? Yes/No?
R: Yes (to trying :))
J: We should give it a try.
A: Wasn't there some concern about meanings being slightly different?
D:Gotta watch out for people twisting the meanings in some cases maybe. I think in some ways there's more danger of that with the "minutes" rather than big policy docs (since policy docs last longer)
D: yeap. Agree with Harry. We can put a disclaimer on top and compile a list of the pages we would like to have translated first.
All at https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Policies_and_other_Documents
J: I like this idea. The disclaimer will be helpful.
D: Good idea yeah
D: would you like to have a look at the website and suggest more pages now? Or via email..? We could also create a collaborative pad.
A: A pad might be good, I'm not sure what pages there are +1
R: It'll be volunteer translators. so it would be interesting (IMO) what pages they _want_ to translate, and just let them do that.
H: The very first link on the Main Page takes us off to a wordpress site at the moment though :-( I feel like some rationalisation is needed... but then there's the bigger idea of moving off mediawiki to a jekyll site. Would be good to find someone who fancies that as a project (I think translations could be moved *after* that happens though)
A: I think that might be a bigger issue to think about and may take a while (I don't know about MW vs jekyll etc)
D: Rory, I agree but in some cases people just want to help and want pointers. As for example Ebrahim.. so we could have a list in case people ask or to just suggest as a starting point (if they're interested).
R: good point. Policy documents are good/important to have translated. https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Membership might be good to translate. To get more members :)
D: yes, good one :) Let's collect suggestions at https://pads.ccc.de/1diAaHYfD3
A: Sounds good. What's the next item?
D: Let's gather suggestions in a week and then email about reaching out options.
D: Next item Using/setting up a ticketing software (suggestion by Rory).
R: My suggestion comes from dealing with the emails to press@ etc. If I write a reply on a pad, it's hard for me to know if it's OK, or no-one has looked at it yet. It would be nice to be able to know if what I've done is OK. Likewise, if I think someone else's reply is OK, what should I do?
R: Perhaps there is a software solution to this, and it might be regular ticketing software. Other OSMF WGs use ticketing software, perhaps that might work for us?
A: I think that sounds like a good idea. I think we often lose emails too
H:: We looked at using github issues a few times, but fell out of the habit a bit. I guess something which automatically swallows the email to kick off the process would be good.
C: Agree some kind of ticketing software driven from incoming emails would work well.
J: Does Github allow such an integration? Like automatically opens a ticket as soon as there is an email?
H: No on it's own, but maybe with 3rd party extension thingy
C: Agree lots of 3rd party integrations. Probably wouldn't be hard to write something to read an inbox and create an issue for new emails coming in.
H: Or then there's a software called OTRS which... possibly we could piggy-back on a pre-existing instance of that run by DWG
R: Using GH issues seems like a hack (If all you have is a hammer...). But the "emoiji" reactions are a good way to "signal approval of a post". OTRS might be good, since OSMF has it already, but I've never used it.
J: Github also has options to assign, maybe a better way to catch someone particular's attention. Haven't heard about OTRS :)
C: OTRS should allow issues to be assigned and can read inboxes?
H: My main problem is that all press@ emails seem to go direct to my spam folder :-) (Mine too -- not sure why)
D: yes, OTRS does allow issue assignment
R: We coudl trial it? Ask for it to be set up on the OSMF instance. and try it for a month?
J: +1 for trying it
H: ok. Not sure who to ask about it, but DWG folks will know
D: MWG use it too (not sure who to ask either)
J: Is it a paid service?
R: My boss is on the DWG. I'll ask him. :)
D: lol :) Jinal, no we have it on OSMF servers, as far as I know.
J: Oh okay! :)
D: so, Action item for Rory, to ask about OTRS?
R: (OK :) )
D: great :) Next topic: Eduardo requested to have access to the blog, in order to add translations in Portuguese.
R: I don't know about this topic much, but sure, translations = good, right?
H: Yeah. We can set him up with a user account, email him to ask him to set a secure password on there. Copy in firefishy who is the sysadmin of the wordpresses I think.
D: Harry, is setting up the account something that you can do..?
H: Yep. Want me to do it? OK
D: if you have some spare time, yes please :)
D: Perhaps we should also decide on requirements to give access so that we have a future guide instead of deciding on a case by case basis. But maybe for a next meeting.
H: It does make me slightly nervous, but... we can at least make people 'editors' but not 'administrators' or something.
C: Can we set permissions so they can't publish?
H: Oh there's "authors' or "contributors" on there (just looking now) : https://codex.wordpress.org/Roles_and_Capabilities#Summary_of_Roles ....oh that's clever. An author can manage "their own posts". ... means they can't go nuts and bugger up the whole website (or not too badly anyway)
D: I remember that there is an option to change the author of a post.. so I could post as "OpenStreetMap".. not sure if all users have that ability.
H: Oh yeah. maybe not. By the way a similar poweruser permissions discussion came up in relation to the main wiki recently https://github.com/openstreetmap/operations/issues/274#issuecomment-462810610 We get the same problem on the blog, that we have a lot older less active accounts. I think I did demote some of the permissions levels on these a few years back though.
D: For future translators such as Eduardo: make them authors or contributors?
C: Presumably whoever is publishing the article can change the author?
H: Well if we set people to be merely "contributor" access, then someone else needs to do the publishing, and they could set the author yes. Or if we set people to be "author" level, then they can publish, but I guess only as themselves (although again somebody else could come along and set it to "OpenStreetMap" user later if preferred). So either way works
H: I think that should be fine. Another bit of the process for welcoming new translators... I think we should take a quick look at who is doing the translations already in this language (if anyone) and let them know they have a new friend.
D: yes, good idea
R: Sounds good. Limiting what people can do at first sounds sensible.
H: Oh one other awkward question... do we want a brazillian portuguese translation AND and a portuguese portugese? We should ask Willie about this (existing brazillian blog translator, who has just been labelling as PT)
D: ok, next topic is "OSMF/MWG wants CWG to do OSMF news posts for members."
R: In that email, someone from MWG says they want to do "
The plan is to have somewhat regular "news" posts from the OSMF, or more
specifically communications working group. Those news are probably a
more common format for a membership organisation, summarizing rather
than overwhelming some members with a detailed discussion and being
exposed to everything"
R: So like, (a) I never heard about this. Does anyone know what needs to be done for that? Should we just wait and see what happens? Any thoughts on this? WeeklyOSM does some summarizing of OSM, but they get charged with bias. etc
D: I am not sure what was meant either. My initial thought was about https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/OSMF_updates.. which, if the group wants to do, that is great. But no idea what exactly they meant :)
J: Rory, does summary mean, links to the minutes of the working group + board meetings etc or different things that are happening -- like announcements related to new policies or change in existing ones, etc?
H: Well I think the idea makes sense. They're talking about the problem of new members not wanting to be on a lively debate-filled mailing list. A newsletter by default would be a better state of affairs. ...trouble is, this is somebody casually volunteering CWG to do a buttload of work :-)
R: I agree that not being on the OSMF-talk list is a great idea for new members. It can be a little "deep end".
H: Yes and that is already implemented (I understand) i.e. new members are no longer auto-subscribed. (it was always going to be a bad idea)
D: the updates are sent to all members (even those who are not subscribed to osmf-talk). The question (I think) is whether the CWG wants to do them.
R: @J I don't know what the CWG is suggesting here. I don't know what would be a good/bad idea or what to include/not include. Makes sense.
J: Dorothea, If I'm not wrong, you did sent some emails with a summary in the past? (Not from CWG but from the board? I guess :) )
D: yes, I was sending the updates (linked above), from the @secretary account. I am actually preparing the new one (Nov 2018 to Jan 2019).
R: As well as the extra work, I worry that anyone who took on the job should be prepared to be accused to misleading/twisting things. "The mailing list had a productive discussion about [blah]" vs "The mailing list continued a toxic and abusive fight about [blah]". ;)
D: as you all understand I'm abstaining from any decision, and leave it to all of you :) It is fine for me either way :)
A: I think WeeklyOSM already does a lot of the "this dicsussion happened" kind of thing, maybe CWG should stick to official minutes, etc.
R: I don't really want to do (or am able to do it), but if someone wants to do it, feel free.
H: It could be good for new OSMF members to receive the blog posts by email somehow. +1 After all these are nicely distilled positive reflection of things going on OSMF (perhaps lacking a bit of frequency)
R: RSS reader! :) There might be a "RSS to email" gateway service, which could make it work with very little effort.
A: Is there some way to automatically sign up new people for that Rory? Or would they have to find it and do it themselves
H: We talked about the "subscribe by email" button idea before. I think it's non-trivial because this involves pumping out lots of emails, but... could look into it again
J: Do we have a way one can subscribe when they sign-up?
H: yeah no it's definately not a default wordpress feature. Not as trivial as people tend to imagine because of the bulk emailing aspect. There must be a way though
A: Maybe it could be some kind of welcome message. "Welcome to OSM! Click here to get official updates and blog posts." Could also point them to their local community or something.
R: OSMF does have email-sending facilities. And RSS feed. I think the MWG would need to sign them up. (Or civicCRM do something?)
D: one could send emails via CiviCRM to members. So, like they get the updates, they could get a link to the blog posts.
J: The blog also does not have a subscribe button as such. We do have a button to subscribe via RSS. Does WP have a limit to the emails that are sent when a new blog post is posted?
C: Appologies, I need to leave.
D: thanks for joining Chris :)
D: Jinal, the emails would have to be sent "manually" (meaning that someone has to write the email, select the correct list of persons and send it). There is no limit as far as I know.
J: So sorry for not being clear and slightly diverging from the topic - I meant was that if folks could subscribe to the OSM blog, then they will be notified everytime there is a new blog post. My bad, I wasn't clear :)
D: that would be ideal. (no idea how to do it right now though).
R: RSS! :D Bring back web 2.0. It allows you to subscribe to things! (Yes I know it's not as popular, and hence not a very useful answer). Providing email would be a big benefit, yes
A: A lot of people don't use RSS though, maybe email would be easiest. I think if there were multiple buttons, like RSS, Email, whatever...
H: We have RSS of course: http://blog.openstreetmap.org/feed question is whether/how to pipe it to email
J: Haven't worked with WP, but I can look into options and get an idea. I'm sure it is possible, since in the past I have subscribed to WP blogs and was notified. Once I have some info, I can share with everyone here :)
D: that would be nice, thanks Jinal :)
H: Probably looking for a open sourcey way of doing it (not a paid for service)
J: Will keep that in mind. WeeklyOSM does it, will check with them - http://www.weeklyosm.eu/ (They have an option to subscribe via email)
D: so, probably this option will let us have a subscriber list independent from CiviCRM and the membership list.. which is probably fine, as more people can subscribe to the posts.
J: I guess so, not sure.
D: does anyone want to look into RSS subscriptions?
R: It might be a good idea to ask the MWG for feedback too. What were they thinking of in the original suggestion, would the blog post feed be OK, can they subscribe people, etc.
D: yeap.. I would prefer not to be the person to send this email for obvious reasons :)
R: Fair. I'd be willing to do it? Since it's relatively easy?
D: do-ocracy :)
R: OK :)
D: unless anyone wants to add something, the next topic is: Design of stickers - Ura https://ura.design/ is a design studio with OSMers who have offered to help CWG in general. Suggestion for initial contact and send them the template files for stickers for review.
A: Sounds good to me! More stickers is good!
A: I added a new one towards the end too about blog posts and outreach. But let's do stickers first!
H: I'm going to have to head off I'm afraid. Good chatting to you all
R: Stickers! yay! [I also wouldn't like to stay for tooo much longer]
D: thanks for joining Harry :)
A: So do we just send them the templates?
D: I would suggest so.. and see what they say.
D: ok, I'll email them
D: and the last topic by Andrew is: Outreach/Press Releases?
holiday blog posts?
other ideas for blog posts?
A: Sure! I know a while ago we talked about a holiday blog post, I think having more of those kinds of things for both the OSM community and also outside would be good. Like include those blog posts in a press release to various tech websites, mapping sites, etc.
A: We did something a while ago about 1 million contributors.
R: I sugggest the xmas post. I like the idea of showing off the new and interesting ways OSMers use/can use OSM. To show what's possible with open data.
A: Agreed! Maybe we can brainstorm some blog ideas. I like the seasonal idea, maybe a Winter one since it's still cold, or spring
D: any Valentine-y ideas? :P
A: That too! Things called love, heart, etc?
R: Where to go on dates? Scenic view points? Is there any spots called "make out point" or other cheesy things?
J: Add restaurants, places that they are planning to visit?
R: *ahem* there are also lots of sex services tagged. For if things don't work out, e.g. https://openlovemap.de/ :D
A: Or maybe famous film locations from romantic movies?
R: But that's in 2 days. Has anyone done anything yet?
A: True. Just talking here :)
A: Maybe the first day of spring would be easier. Flower fields, etc
D: just one point.. we have to be aware about culture and the different hemispheres.. so spring is not like here on the southern hemisphere.. and many places don't have Valentine's, Xmas etc
A:. Good point!
R: Yes, agreed, it's important to not imply everyone's the same. Perhaps if we had lots of different seasons/festival posts?
R: Ha! In Ireland Spring starts on 1st Feb (St. Brigit's Day/Imbolc) Fasching/Lent/Easter is coming up? Dunno what you'd do about that
J: For the valentines day post, do we want them to use OSM or contribute to OSM? Maybe both? I can try to come up with something for you all to look at.
A: Maybe then things like equinox... could just be names of features that include equinox. I think in general just more posts about neat things in OSM. The holiday post from Rory and the person who wanted to write about Martin Luther King Jr. Streets got me thinking.
J: We can probably list all possible seasons/events with Significance from different parts of the world and plan accordingly?
R: There are lots of "International Day of [whatever]".
A:Ah great idea!
D: it was female scientists today (I think)
R: May Day is coming up. Freak out the americans by talking about Labo(u)r Day (it's in Sept in USA). "Find your local trade union office"
A: International Women's Day is March 8, for example. ( A lot of OSM events happen around the same time) So maybe we should start another pad with ideas for seasonal/topical blog posts. I'd be happy to email them to the press emails we have too, from before.
A: How does one start a new pad...
R: @A just go to https://pads.ccc.de/
A: - got it thanks!
R: Lots of good ideas about seasonal events :) I'm gonna go shortly
A: Blog post ideas here! https://pads.ccc.de/4U1Bnm8fCv
R: OK, I have to go. Thanks for the good chat. TTYL
J: I will also have to leave now. Thank you all, have a great rest of the day ahead :) Bye!
D: Bye Rory and Jinal :) Thanks Andrew :)
A: Sorry, got cut off. Bye all!