Working Group Minutes/EWG 2013-08-19


IRC nick Real name
apmon Kai Krueger
pnorman Paul Norman
RichardF Richard Fairhurst
TomH Tom Hughes
zere Matt Amos


  • Translations for welcome branch
    • Now have German, Danish, French.
    • The branch has been merged (although is not live), so further translations will be via translatewiki.
  • OSM Carto style instructions
    • Documentation (e.g: switch2osm) needs to be updated to reference the Carto style.
    • ACTION: pnorman to write up technical instructions.
    • ACTION: RichardF to write up copy based on pnorman's instructions and upload to switch2osm.


17:01:00 <zere> minutes of the last meeting:
17:01:24 <zere> please let me know if anything in there isn't right or needs changing.
17:02:21 <zere> from last meeting, we had a couple of actions: apmon to provide a german translation of the welcome branch copy, and myself to try to encourage others to provide additional translations.
17:02:46 <zere> i have to say, i only posted the invite on #osm, and it didn't get any response.
17:02:58 <TomH> well we got german, danish and french
17:03:25 <apmon> I had posted a request on talk:
17:03:39 <zere> is the welcome branch now live?
17:03:57 <TomH> no - it is merged but not live
17:04:23 * pnorman waves
17:04:53 <zere> ah, shame - i put that section in a gist so that people wouldn't have to figure out github / PRs / etc...
17:04:53 <pnorman> I had someone contact me while I was AFK about some other language
17:05:32 <apmon> zere: Yeah, I could find the gist anymore
17:05:58 <zere> at least having german, danish and french should make it much less of an impact. still would be nice to get russian, spanish and japanese though.
17:05:59 <pnorman> do we have any statistics about most used languages?
17:06:20 <zere> apmon:
17:06:23 <TomH> my guess would be german, russian
17:07:26 <pnorman> I looked at awstats and china was surprisingly high on the list by IP, but not sure if that converts to people viewing the page in chinese
17:08:24 <apmon> I need to go now, so unfortunately I will miss the rest of the meeting
17:08:54 <apmon> TomH: Thanks for dealing with the translations and holding off of putting it live for this!
17:11:18 <pnorman> I think it was Italian that someone had a translation for
17:12:35 <zere> top 5 are: english (33k/day), german (11k/day), russian (3.9k/day), french (2.5k/day), spanish (2.3k/day)
17:14:37 <zere> then polish, italian, dutch, chinese (doesn't say which variety), portuguese, japanese, korean, czech, danish, swedish, finnish, norwegian bokmal, arabic, turkish, hungarian, ....
17:14:51 <pnorman> awstats puts top at cn, de, us, ru, gb, fr, eu
17:15:27 <pnorman> that includes API usage, but surprised about the big .cn difference in IP vs language
17:15:54 <zere> yeah, i'm pulling these stats out of piwik, so it would exclude API usage.
17:18:40 <pnorman> anyways, safe to say that we might get the Italian translation from darkswan in, but any others are unlikely before deployment?
17:20:15 <zere> if we go by the piwik top 5, that covers 80% of our visitors...
17:20:44 <zere> to get to 95%, we'd need to cover an additional 10 languages.
17:21:19 <zere> and yeah, i think it's fair to say that translations shouldn't hold up deployment, especially now it's merged
17:21:27 <pnorman> perhaps move on to if there's a better way to deal with this in general?
17:21:38 <zere> if we get more: great. if not, i'm sure translatewiki will pick it up...
17:22:13 <zere> i figure we either have to have a group of people who are happy to help with translation work to call upon...
17:22:31 <zere> or figure out how to help / get translatewiki to support branches.
17:22:53 <zere> i have no idea how hard the second option is, though.
17:24:06 <pnorman> someone to ping siebrand to see what would be involved in dev work for the second option?
17:24:18 <TomH> pnorman: it's on TW now so we can't really take any more direct translations
17:24:39 <zere> if we take a direct translation, won't translatewiki merge that in?
17:25:21 <TomH> well in theory, but it means the TW admins will have to decide which version to take if a string has also been added on TW
17:25:39 <TomH> our agreement with them basically is that we don't go adding stuff to non-english languages
17:27:02 <zere> ah, right.
17:31:52 <pnorman> I think I emailed zere a couple items but my brain is still bootstrapping in the morning
17:32:44 <pnorman> Oh yes, switch2osm. We really need to update switch2osm to use carto. RichardF ping
17:32:59 <RichardF> pong
17:33:37 <zere> pnorman: yes, you did. sorry about that - i completely forgot.
17:33:52 <zere> #topic switch2osm carto instructions
17:34:34 <pnorman> So, a couple of people have been by IRC asking about setting up a tile server (as per normal) and we've directed them to use the old SVN osm.xml because that's what we have published instructions on
17:36:59 <zere> it needs someone familiar with the carto stack to add instructions for carto->xml compilation?
17:38:02 <pnorman> it needs a refresh for other reasons too
17:38:41 <pnorman> the other issue is updating apmon's packages to support carto
17:40:53 <TomH> I did start updating the relevant wiki page with carto based instructions
17:41:07 <pnorman> my understanding is carto is a real pain to package, so probably defer that discussion until apmon is here
17:44:11 <zere> because of the whole npm thing?
17:44:16 <pnorman> yes
17:44:46 <zere> does it help if we provide pre-compiled-to-xml versions? i guess not if we want people to edit / contribute to the carto.
17:45:05 <pnorman> we can't because they might put them in a different path
17:45:21 <zere> sed s/$OLD_PATH/$NEW_PATH/?
17:46:02 <zere> i mean... that's a pretty crappy way of doing it, but it would be a work-around in case npm really is such a pain to package that it blocks this.
17:46:49 <pnorman> I think part of the hope is that people could move from just running the stylesheet to editing and running their own style. but let's defer the package part for now and worry about docs
17:47:20 <TomH> apt-get install nodejs npm
17:47:20 <TomH> npm install carto millstone
17:47:20 <TomH> should do it on ubuntu I think
17:47:31 <TomH> and on Fedora these days come to that
17:47:49 <TomH> well yum obviously on fedora
17:48:53 <zere> clearly someone needs to work through the instructions and find out what/if it works.
17:49:05 <zere> anyone feel like taking that on?
17:49:20 <pnorman> I can do the technical side, but loathe wordpress
17:54:02 <RichardF> that's handy; I can do the copy-writing side, but loath technicalities :)
17:54:19 <RichardF> loathe even. clearly I can't really do the copy-writing side...
17:54:39 <pnorman> pnorman to send RichardF updates?
17:54:50 <RichardF> fine with me!
17:56:09 * pnorman has been thinking about making it easier to do osm2pgsql stuff on EC2, but has nothing to report
18:01:39 <pnorman> I know in 2011 there was some stuff running similar to what I want, I need to look that up.
18:01:43 <pnorman> zere: check PMs re cgimap
18:01:57 <zere> would you make a pre-baked EC2 image or something?
18:02:13 <zere> pnorman: yes, sorry about that. i need to get back and review those again.
18:02:54 <zere> was there anything else anyone wanted to discuss?
18:06:11 <pnorman> not sure what the best approach is
18:07:34 <pnorman> I just want to avoid the sillyness of everyone spending hours importing their own osm2pgsql db, particularly when a --slim --drop db isn't that big
18:09:21 <pnorman> maybe bug mapbox, they're AWS people and I'm sure they'd love it if someone could easily generate a big thing of tiles to upload to mapbox where they can then charge for it
18:10:32 <zere> their mapnik vector tiles would presumably be pretty scalable for setting up on-demand servers. but then you'd be tied to whatever decisions they'd made about layers and generalisation levels. but they're probably pretty sensible defaults.
18:13:38 <pnorman> The messages I've been doing to talk@ about upcoming website stuff seem to be helping
18:17:30 * pnorman thinks the meeting has dwindled off
18:19:53 <zere> yup, you're right.
18:20:02 <zere> thanks for coming, everyone :-)