- Clifford Snow (Glassman)
- Jonathan Witcoski (jonwit)
- Steve Friedl (SJFriedl)
- Ilya Zverev (Zverik)
- (johnarupire) as a guest
- E-Mail rejected as spam on email@example.com
- Access to osmf-talk mailinglist
- Access to Civicrm
Four members are missing.
Minutes from 2016-09-04 postponed to next meeting.
Membership Fee Waiver Program
This program is to waive the membership fee if paying the fee would constitute an unreasonable burden to the member either because of
- financial hardship
- lack of a suitable money transfer facility
In return, the applicant should contribute something else of value, for example time. This should benefit the OSMF, and should not just be “mapping”. For example it could be translating some software, or writing a report about the local community, or about one’s mapping activity. MWG should decide if an application meets the requirements. MWG should find some internal guidelines, in accordance with the board decision about the fee waiver program.
Jonathan to gather a list of potential regions where money transfer is not readily available.
Clifford to inquire on the mailing list about suitable tasks in return for the fee waiver.
Two people have now access to the forms. Plan to move to a wordpress form still open.
Information about communication channels when joining the OSMF
A new member suggested to provide some information on the used communication channels in the OSMF, like the osmf-talk mailinglist. This should be possible with Civicrm. A text needs to be drafted.
21:05 < Glassman> I'm looking for the agenda - anyone have a copy 21:05 < Glassman> here it is - 21:06 < Glassman> - last minutes (Sep. 4., not yet online) 21:06 < Glassman> - sign-ups at sotm 21:06 < Glassman> - bank payments August 21:06 < Glassman> - google form for membership registration from Henk, Ilya has access. 21:06 < Glassman> - address change (1 member) 21:06 < Glassman> - reduced membership fee / fee waiver program 21:06 < Glassman> - signup mail with communication information (proposed by a new member) 21:06 < Glassman> - disabling reminder for members with bank transfer (member request) 21:07 < Glassman> I think we should start. I believe Michael ended up with a conflict so he can't make it 21:07 < jonwit> Ok 21:08 < Glassman> I see other people on - datendelphin SJFriedl and Zverik 21:08 < jonwit> Let's do a roll call 21:08 < Glassman> Clifford, aka Glassman 21:09 < jonwit> Jonathan witcoski USA 21:10 < Glassman> Just the two of us? 21:10 < jonwit> Go team 21:11 < Glassman> Two people doesn't seem like a quorum. 21:11 < jonwit> I haven't filled my non disclosure agreement so I guess a reminder to do so is the first item on the agenda 21:12 < jonwit> No I think the only thing we can talk about is everyone to sign their forms and maybe to start a email message topic about the fee waiver program 21:12 < SJFriedl> Hi all, I'm here too. 21:13 < Glassman> I sent mine to Paul Norman - I'll ping paul and ask him how many waivers he has receved\ 21:14 < jonwit> Ok have you signed a waiver form yet SJFriedl 21:14 < SJFriedl> signed but not sent in yet. I need to get my wife to scan it at her office tomorrow. 21:15 < Glassman> I pinged paul to see if he can join the chat and asked about how many waivers he has received 21:16 < Glassman> Once he has provided the info we can send out a reminder to the rest of the WG 21:16 < Glassman> I can do that. 21:16 < jonwit> Fantastic I'll get mine in this evening 21:16 < Glassman> great 21:17 < Glassman> shall we discuss reduced membership fee? 21:18 < jonwit> Sure let's discuss. 21:18 < SJFriedl> Isn't the idea to provide reduced fees for those who just can't afford it, sort of like a scholarship? 21:19 < Glassman> Do we have a clear understanding of what reducing membership fees is to accomplish? 21:19 < jonwit> I don't think it was ever spelled out 21:20 < Glassman> I like the idea of lower fees. Wikimedia is far less expensive than OSM 21:20 < SJFriedl> Personally if somebody wants to be involved, I am all in favor of quasi-scholarships to help them out. 21:21 < Glassman> I think we should have a clear set of goals that we expect lower fees to accomplish. How else can we determine if it works? 21:21 < jonwit> I agree however how and who judges if the fee would pose an undue hardship 21:22 < SJFriedl> What prompted this question in the first place? 21:22 < Glassman> Another approach would be to reduce the OSMF membership fees accross the board 21:23 < Glassman> SJFriedl - I think the board discussed it - but I'm not sure 21:23 < jonwit> PAUL wrote It would be good to set up a membership fee waiver program. The OSMF has the power to waive the membership fee for associate membership under certain conditions 21:23 < jonwit> If paying the fee would constitute an unreasonable burden to the member either because of 21:23 < jonwit> a) financial hardship 21:23 < jonwit> b) lack of a suitable money transfer facility 21:23 < jonwit> the foundation can waive the fee, and may require the applicant t 21:23 < jonwit> o required to contribute something else of value (e.g: time, …) to the Foundation, for example write a paragraph on mapping in their region. 21:23 < jonwit> Their membership needs annual renewal, just like other memberships. 21:23 < jonwit> I'm not sure how to judge financial hardship. I haven't been involved in scholarships or similar. We want it to be minimally invasive, yet need to be satisfied that 15GBP would be an unreas 21:23 < jonwit> onable burden. 21:23 < jonwit> For money transfer facilities, we accept paypal and international bank transfers. I'd suggest that anyone in a country where neither are an option for most people or the bank transfer fees are disproportionate to the amount being transferred has a lack of a suitable money transfer facility. 21:24 < SJFriedl> how much pent-up demand is seen for something like this? 21:24 < jonwit> This was from an email on 9/1/2016 from Paul Norman 21:25 < Glassman> jonwit - i like the suggestion for a work in return for reduced fees 21:25 < jonwit> I believe I saw 2 emails asking about it 21:26 < Glassman> I talked to Paul a last week a little about membership fees. 21:26 < Glassman> Part of the problem is countries where we can easily transfer money via paypal or bank transfers 21:27 < SJFriedl> What's an example of a country that would have such a problem? 21:27 * SJFriedl really just doesn't know 21:28 < jonwit> I accept the challenge to fact find this 21:29 < jonwit> I know western union pulled out of a lot of countries 21:29 < Glassman> The one I can think of is Venezuela 21:30 < Glassman> We had a problem giving scholarship to the US SoTM conference. I ended up giving cash to a scholarship recipient and getting reimbursed later. 21:30 < jonwit> So I'll create/find a list of countries that have a problem with wire transfers 21:30 < SJFriedl> so this is not just about a reduced fee - for a hardship in paying - but an outright waiver for the money-transfer case. 21:31 < Glassman> I think that is true 21:32 < jonwit> So the next issue is what level of commitment would be needed by them to satisfy the community service requirement 21:33 < jonwit> Would this be determined by the osmf board 21:33 < Glassman> The following was in a proposed revised articles in 2014 21:34 < SJFriedl> this is a committment to the OSMF, not just OSM, right, so community service might not be strictly doing lots of mapping? 21:34 < Glassman> 1. The membership fee and conditions for regular and corporate membership remain unchanged. 21:34 < Glassman> 2. The membership fee for associate membership, which normally is tied to the regular membership fee, may be waived if paying the fee would constitute an unreasonable burden to the member, either because of financial hardship or because of the lack of a suitable money transfer facility. 21:34 < Glassman> 3. In order to be eligible for the membership fee waiver, the applicant may be required to contribute something else of value (e.g: time, …) to the Foundation, for example write a paragraph on mapping in their region. 21:34 < Glassman> 4. Just like paid membership, membership under the membership fee waiver programme must be renewed annually. 21:34 < Glassman> 5. Associate members who have joined under the membership fee waiver programme have the same rights as any associate member and the fact that they have joined under the membership fee waiver programme will not be public. 21:35 < jonwit> So armchair mapping your town would not count but giving a talk to your community would 21:37 < Glassman> FYI - it appears to have passed. 21:37 < Glassman> jonwit - looks like we would be administering that aspect of the waiver program 21:37 < Zverik> Hi everyone. Forgot to add the date to the calendar, sorry 21:38 < Glassman> Hi Zverik - we are discussing the waiver program 21:38 < jonwit> So we would vote on whether... fair enough 21:39 < SJFriedl> the program passed, or the details? 21:39 < Glassman> we should probably document what would be acceptable for a waiver. and keep track of the results 21:40 < SJFriedl> not only a setup of what the guidelines would be, but a procedure for keeping track. 21:40 < jonwit> Does someone want to take the lead and write directions for doing this? Aka document using a osm blog post 21:40 < jonwit> Does anyone know if any member had their fees waived? 21:40 < SJFriedl> even if the guidelines are clear on what constitutes sufficient community service, presumably MWG would need to know who they are so we can find out if they satisfied their obligation. 21:41 < Zverik> I'm now looking at the google docs table with fee waiving requests 21:41 < Zverik> I guess I can give premissions to it to somebody 21:41 < Zverik> (although the plan is to move away from google forms) 21:41 < SJFriedl> OR: maybe it's not followed too closely, but instead enforced on re-application - if you're asking for the waiver again, what did you did you do last year? 21:41 < Glassman> don't do it on my account - move away from google doc. 21:42 < Zverik> just 6 requests this year (and one in 2015) 21:42 < jonwit> I don't think doing it once allows them to get a lifetime membership in osmf 21:43 < Glassman> It should be every year in my thinking. 21:43 < Zverik> yes, and for some reasons seem temporary, like "I got into a fight at work...I'm broke but I won the fight." 21:43 < johnarupire> hi,everyone, I'm not member of foundation, I'm here for fee waiver program, I'm from Perú OSM comunity 21:43 < Glassman> Zverik - did any offer any contribution to OSM? 21:43 < johnarupire> sorry for delay 21:44 < Glassman> Welcome johnarupire 21:44 < Zverik> Glassman: the form seems not to have a field for an alternative contribution 21:45 < Glassman> I think it would be a good idea to ask the community what they think would be appropriate for a 15 pound waiver. 21:45 < johnarupire> thanks Glassman 21:45 < Zverik> Glassman: I agree 21:45 < Glassman> or is it euro? 21:45 < Zverik> Last time I paid, it was pounds 21:46 < Glassman> Only $18 US - not bad. Thanks Brexit 21:47 < jonwit_> I'm going to be offline for a few minutes. 21:47 < Glassman> I'll send a email to talk asking for input. 21:48 < Glassman> Zverik - can we get edit permission on the waiver document so we can add in the contribution field? 21:51 < SJFriedl> Asking the application what constitutes alternate contribution is a *great* idea 21:51 < Glassman> johnarupire what is your thoughts about the fee waiver program? 21:52 < johnarupire> We here in Perú dont have any idea about this issue, but we think we can help with some task trought this possibility 21:53 < Zverik> Glassman: You should receive a mail now. Please do not delete fields and do not edit responses :) 21:53 < johnarupire> we want to encourage our relation with global osm community 21:53 < Glassman> johnarupire - did you attend the US SOTM? 21:53 < johnarupire> no 21:54 < Glassman> I thought we had someone from Peru but I could be mistaken 21:54 < johnarupire> we have not yet participated in any SOTM 21:54 < Glassman> next year 21:55 < johnarupire> maybe someone from Mapbox peruavian team 21:55 < Glassman> What do you think would be a good contribution for an annual reduction/waiver of the membership fee? 21:56 < johnarupire> Creo que permitrá que más comunidades que no tiene recursos financieros puedan participar 21:57 < johnarupire> sorry 21:57 < johnarupire> I think that will allow more communities that do not have financial resources to participate 21:58 < jonwit_> I agree, something like the diary entries I see about HOT where they talk about what they did in their community 21:58 < johnarupire> In the case of Peru can be a good step to strengthen our community. 21:59 < Glassman> The article that was voted on suggest that to get a reduced fee or waiver would in turn contribute back to OSM - something other than mapping. We are looking for some suggestions that we could post on the OSMF blog. Any suggestions? 22:01 < Zverik> Host a mapping party? Blog about community and-or mapping? Send a postcard? 22:01 < jonwit_> So something like osm-wiki writing? 22:01 < johnarupire> Maybe, we can tal ves podamos aportar con un post mensual sobre el estado de OSM en nuestro país o comunidad 22:02 < Zverik> Help translating an osm tool into their language? 22:02 < johnarupire> maybe we can provide a monthly post on the state of OSM in our country or community 22:02 < johnarupire> yes, translating is a very good task too 22:02 < johnarupire> translating wiki 22:02 < Zverik> for the fee waiver program, we need a one time action. Although having a monthly community overview would be great :) 22:02 < Glassman> Those are all good suggestions. I'll use them in our message to the OSM community. 22:03 < Zverik> It should be something equal to two-three hours of work 22:03 < Glassman> WE've been at this an hour now. Any other pressing items we need to discuss? 22:04 < Zverik> access to civicrm, which I still haven't given out to anybody 22:04 < johnarupire> Is, nice, maybe, antoher suggestion can be a translating from local language to english too 22:04 < Glassman> Zverik - do you have any of the waiver forms? Mine was sent to Paul 22:04 < Zverik> do we have a list of people who signed nda? I've seen a signed paper at sotm in Brussels, but somebody took it with them 22:04 < Zverik> Glassman: waiver forms? 22:05 < Glassman> the NDA 22:05 < jonwit_> So before everyone jumped on everyone (like me) still needs to sign waiver forms 22:05 < Glassman> sorry 22:05 < johnarupire> I dont see any waiver form yet 22:05 < Zverik> ah. I don't, Paul forgot to give them to me. I'll ask him for the list 22:05 < Glassman> I sent paul a note asking for them as well 22:06 < Glassman> he must be busy job hunting 22:07 < jonwit_> The last item on our agenda was disabling payment reminders and auto adding to the mail distribution when you join 22:07 < Glassman> who has permissions to do that? 22:07 < Zverik> what do you mean by mail distribution? 22:07 < jonwit_> It was suggestions from new members 22:08 < jonwit_> Yes 22:09 < jonwit_> 16:33 Glassman - signup mail with communication information (proposed by a new member) 22:09 < jonwit_> 16:33 Glassman - disabling reminder for members with bank transfer (member request) 22:10 < Zverik> information like what? I assume we can do that somehow with civicrm, it has quite a few mailing options 22:10 < Zverik> not sure about disabling the reminder — why would you want that 22:11 < jonwit_> I guess people get annoyed by emails but I agree that I like to see when someone charges me 22:11 < Glassman> Maybe an opt out? 22:13 < jonwit_> So we need to find if opting out of a bill reminder or joining the mail list is possible in civicrm 22:15 < Glassman> Either someone with civicrm access needs to investigate or we need to get our NDA's forms signed and processed to get us all access to the system. 22:15 < Zverik> In case of a bank transfer reminders are manual. I just click a checkbox after filling in the details. I can not do that. 22:16 < jonwit_> So no on the bank transfers and I believe the mailing list isn't even controlled by civicrm 22:17 < Zverik> which mailing list? 22:17 < Zverik> osmf-talk? 22:18 < jonwit_> Yes 22:18 < Zverik> Auto adding members there, I guess, is not possible. Henk must have done it by hand. I am now an admin so I can look into new members who still are not signed for osm-talk 22:19 < jonwit_> Great, I guess that wraps up the meeting unless there is anything else 22:19 < Glassman> There is one other item, but I'd like to hold that until next meeting. 22:20 < Zverik> okay. I've just asked Paul for these nda forms. I hope to finish at least that thing in a week :) 22:21 < Glassman> The item is sending out more information to new members how they can get involved. I'll work on it until we meet again 22:21 < Zverik> Glassman: I assume I can set up CiviCRM to send welcome emails, if I have the text. I'm not a native English speaker, so I'd prefer somebody else to write that :) 22:21 < Glassman> Talk to everyone next get together 22:21 < SJFriedl> thanks all; happy mappy 22:21 < jonwit_> Happy Halloween 22:22 < Glassman> No problem - it's one of my issues. I'll work on it. 22:22 < Zverik> yeah, have a nice November :) 22:24 < johnarupire> thanks everyone!