Working Group Minutes/MWG 2017-02-01
- Michael Spreng (datendelphin)
- Jonathan Witcoski (Mutter)
- Ilya Zverev (Zverik)
- Guillaume Rischard (Stereo)
- bank transfer form
- E-Mail rejected as spam on firstname.lastname@example.org
- Member self service area
- Welcome message to new members
Minutes from 2016-12-07 accepted.
When new members sign up, they should get a message as an introduction to the OSMF. It should enable them to find out how to get more involved in the OSMF, how the fees are used and how to communicate with other members. We aske the communications working group if they would provide us a with a nice text for this purpose
Missing membership renewal reminders
We were informed that some members did not get all of the appropriate renewal reminder mails. Investigating the issue shows that indeed, for some members not all reminders were sent. Civicrm should send these, and records the outgoing mails. It is unclear why some of the reminders were not sent. There are 6 reminders which are sent:
- 1st reminder four weeks before membership ends
- 2nd reminder two weeks before membership ends
- 1st expiration notification one day after the membership ended
- 2nd expiration notification one month after the membership ended
- 3rd expiration notification three months after the membership ended
- 4th expiration notification six months after the membership ended
- 5th and final expiration notification ten months after the membership ended
Mostly the expiration notifications were the ones which were for unknown reasons not sent.
bank transfer form
We would like to install a plug in in the join.osmfoundation.org wiki to send the bank transfer form by mail to mwg@. Ask OWG to install this plug in.
E-Mail rejected as spam
We would like to offer an alternative address which should not filter out spam so aggressively. But it should still contain the osmfoundation.org domain. Ideally email@example.com at a different mail provider.
500 Euros for member crads. 100Euros for Mail.
--- Wed Feb 01 2017 15:51 < Stereo> So https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Working_Group_Minutes/MWG_2016-12-07 are the minutes 15:51 < Stereo> of the previous one 16:03 < datendelphin> I propose a few topics: 16:03 -!- Mutter [~Mutter@22.214.171.124] has joined #osmf-membership 16:03 < datendelphin> last minutes 16:03 < datendelphin> Hi Mutter 16:03 < Mutter> Morning 16:03 < datendelphin> missing reminders 16:03 < Mutter> This is jonathan witcoski 16:04 < datendelphin> Wordpress plug in for form to mail 16:05 < datendelphin> The welcome message 16:05 < datendelphin> Budget 16:05 < datendelphin> Update Civicrm 16:06 < Stereo> And E-Mail rejected as spam on firstname.lastname@example.org 16:06 < Stereo> if that's ok with everyone 16:06 < Stereo> Hi Mutter 16:06 < Mutter> Sounds good 16:07 < datendelphin> Any Other Business: no new Bank statements, Stere should be added to this page: https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Membership_Working_Group 16:08 < datendelphin> ok, now I only wish Zverik would be available 16:08 < Stereo> Ah, I don't have edit rights on that 16:09 < Zverik> I'm here. Hi everyone 16:09 < Stereo> pnorman: you won't be joining us? 16:09 < datendelphin> Perfect :) 16:10 < Mutter> So first issue on the agenda is welcome message to new users 16:10 < datendelphin> No, first is last minutes :) 16:10 < Stereo> I move to approve the minutes. Good job. 16:11 < datendelphin> I vote to accept the last minutes 16:11 < Zverik> Stereo: added you to the MWG page 16:11 < Stereo> Cheers Zverik 16:12 < Zverik> Minutes are really good 16:12 < Mutter> I vote to accept them as well. Sorry for jumping ahead 16:13 < Zverik> I haven't yet touched a "member self-service website", sorry 16:14 < datendelphin> has anyone done anything for the welcome messages? Like written a text? 16:14 < datendelphin> I havn't 16:14 < Stereo> I have the thing I send to locals here 16:15 < Stereo> Which I think I stole from simonpoole a long time ago, and adapted 16:15 < datendelphin> I have somithing similar for Switzerland. 16:15 < Zverik> maybe we could ask the CWG to write that 16:16 < Stereo> Basically, 1. Hello, congratulations on your first edits in X, and welcome 16:16 < datendelphin> oh, they are alive, true 16:16 < Stereo> 2. Here's how to get in touch with the local community: ML, forums, wiki, etc. 16:17 < datendelphin> Stereo: are you talking about a welcome message for new mappers, or one for new OSMF members? 16:17 < Stereo> 3. anything personalised, like better imagery, more sources 16:17 < Stereo> Ahh 16:17 < datendelphin> I think it was for OSMF 16:17 < Zverik> datendelphin: osmf 16:17 < Stereo> New mappers 16:17 < Stereo> Ok, ignore that 16:17 < Stereo> New osmf members then. Perfect. 16:18 < datendelphin> OK, so I will contact CWG then 16:18 < Stereo> Well it's similar maybe - welcome, here's the resources, here's how to get involved in working groups, here's, if relevant, your local chapter, thank you for your support 16:18 < Mutter> Anything about what the $$ you gave supports (i.e. Servers, grants,) 16:19 < datendelphin> Yes it is, just a few different resources. 16:19 < Stereo> The best page I ever saw for that was https://london.hackspace.org.uk/cost-of-hacking/ 16:19 < Stereo> But maybe that's something for the osmf treasurer to look at. 16:19 < Stereo> We can link to the last financial report 16:20 < Mutter> Sounds good, are we going to write a rough draft then before passing off to CWG? 16:21 < Zverik> We don't have to, but we'd need a list of topics to touch 16:21 < Stereo> Is this too rough? :) 16:22 < datendelphin> Yes we can. Would Mutter be so inclined? 16:22 < Zverik> e.g. "ask your organization if they would like to support the OSM by becoming a corporate member" 16:23 < Stereo> I'll summarise: welcome, thank you for contributing, here's what we do with your money, here are the resources (ml, etc.), here are the working groups you can get involved in, here's the list of local chapters, thank you again for your support. 16:23 < Stereo> Ok I'll just make an etherpad 16:23 < Stereo> https://public.etherpad-mozilla.org/p/0vbutmX2ok 16:24 < Zverik> thanks 16:24 < datendelphin> Next Topic? 16:25 < Mutter> Yes please 16:25 < Stereo> Wait 16:25 < Stereo> Are we all happy with the pad? 16:25 < Stereo> Who sends it to CWG? 16:27 < datendelphin> Yes it's good. You if you would like? Otherwise I will 16:27 < Mutter> Pad looks good 16:28 < Stereo> I've added the expiration date and the corporate member plug 16:29 < Stereo> datendelphin: I'm on a weird wifi that doesn't like email, I'm happy if you do it. 16:29 < datendelphin> OK 16:30 < datendelphin> will do in the next few days. Next topic: missing reminders 16:31 < datendelphin> I have picked a few random accounts and observed, that all had both reminders sent 16:31 < Stereo> Can you please quickly remind us what this is about? 16:31 < datendelphin> do you get the mwg@ emails? 16:32 < Stereo> I do 16:32 < Mutter> Yes 16:32 < Stereo> Is it about the people who said they hadn't received the reminder? 16:32 < datendelphin> There was one which informed us that his friend did not get the membership expiration notice 16:32 < datendelphin> exactly 16:33 < datendelphin> So that wasn't entierly true 16:33 < datendelphin> He got the first, but not the second 16:33 < datendelphin> More importantly, Civicrm should also send reminders after expiration 16:34 < Mutter> How often does this happen? I think we only get maybe 1 or 2 a year about this issue and it has to do more with whatever email client they use 16:34 < datendelphin> which were not sent to him, and also other members 16:34 < datendelphin> It wasn't even recorded in civicrm, so I guess the problem is on our side 16:35 < datendelphin> And while I found no other instances of no sent warning before expiry, after the expiry it seems more common 16:35 < datendelphin> I have no idea why 16:35 < Stereo> This is the email Henk sends with "OSMF membership renewal notification 16:35 < Stereo> " in the subject, right? 16:36 < datendelphin> yes, but it wasn't sent by henk since some time, but by civicrm 16:36 < Stereo> Ah I see it's not Henk anymore 16:36 < Stereo> Yup 16:37 < Stereo> It has fallen through the cracks on my side too. "Oh, I'll deal with it whenever". 16:37 < Stereo> Can we have the expiration date in the subject? 16:37 < datendelphin> Zverik, you have some experience with civicrm? 16:38 < Stereo> "Guillaume, your OSMF membership will expire on 3 May" would be a better call to action 16:39 < Stereo> We can also throw parts of the welcome email in there - here's how your money gets spent, etc. 16:40 < datendelphin> I'm not sure, usually it doesn't get read anyway. Subjectline could be a good idea though 16:41 < Zverik> datendelphin: I have, though not much 16:41 < Zverik> mainly search for contacts and prolonging membership :) 16:41 < Zverik> I can find the templates 16:41 < Stereo> I know I've thought, when receiving calls for renewals from other organisations, "what are they doing with that money?" 16:41 < datendelphin> Where is it set up for the reminders? I havn't found that 16:42 < Stereo> Looking too 16:43 < Zverik> datendelphin: Administer → Communications → Message Templates → System Workflow → Membership 16:43 < Stereo> I don't have Administer 16:44 < Stereo> The date is already in the body 16:44 < Stereo> Should we change the subject now, and put some stuff from the welcome email when it comes back from CWG? 16:44 < Stereo> So at the next meeting 16:45 < datendelphin> we can perfectly do this between meetings. I would like to not drag it out too much 16:45 < Zverik> Stereo: made you an admin. Please don't break the join.osmf website :) 16:45 < Zverik> now you should see the Administer menu 16:46 < datendelphin> found it. So I would say include the date if possible. Votes against? 16:48 < Mutter> I'll allow it 16:49 < Zverik> Please do 16:52 < Mutter> Next? 16:52 < datendelphin> Zverik I need a plugin installed on the join wiki for the form to mail functionality 16:53 < datendelphin> But I can't. Who can? Operation working group? 16:53 < datendelphin> It needs to be placed in the correct folder on the server 16:53 < Zverik> datendelphin: yes, the OWG 16:53 < Zverik> the dir is not writable, so we can't do it without them 16:53 < datendelphin> ok, so will contact OWG 16:54 < Stereo> Zverik: I'll do my best. 16:55 < datendelphin> Now about the spam issue. I asked the OWG, and they can't reasonably do anything, its plain google, no special restrictions they could weaken 16:56 < datendelphin> Now I could think of two ways to improve the situation. 16:57 < datendelphin> Make another mail adress which forwards to us with a reputable mail provider. For example posteo.de is well regarded where I live 16:57 < datendelphin> Or we ask a local chapter to provide an alternative address 16:58 < Stereo> Google does drop forwards too 16:58 < Stereo> If I send an email from stereo.lu and posteo.de forwards it, the SPF record won't match, and it'll get dropped 16:59 < Stereo> We could host the email for mwg.osmfoundation.org elsewhere, that way we're still on the right domain 16:59 < datendelphin> not if posteo does it correctly and readdresses it. Which I'm pretty sure they'll do 16:59 < Stereo> They rewrite the from address? 17:00 < datendelphin> yes. The SMTP MAIL FROM: 17:00 < datendelphin> not the body from 17:01 < Stereo> I think that'll get dropped 17:02 < datendelphin> Well technical aside, would we even consider that solution? 17:03 < Stereo> email@example.com? 17:03 < datendelphin> yes something like that 17:03 < datendelphin> als an alternative 17:03 < datendelphin> als=as 17:03 < Stereo> It'll look strange, especially to non-Germans. I'd prefer the second solution. 17:04 < Mutter> I agree as an uninformed American that looks like spam. Might as well be from aol.com 17:04 < datendelphin> that will look strange as well: firstname.lastname@example.org or something like that 17:05 < Stereo> What about mwg.osmfoundation.org? 17:05 < Stereo> email@example.com or something 17:06 < datendelphin> maybe, but then we need another DNS entry. Don't know how much work is needed for that. 17:07 < datendelphin> it would only be for receiving mails, not sending. So the spam argument isn't so severe 17:07 < Stereo> A few records in the dns admin at bytemark, where the domain is hosted 17:08 < datendelphin> So we would need to annoy owg again 17:08 < Stereo> Yup. 17:09 < datendelphin> I'll have a look if posteo would support the subdomain variant. 17:09 < Stereo> That'd be good. One of the local chapters could also host it. 17:10 < Stereo> What do the other think? So to summarise: firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org 17:10 < datendelphin> oh I forgot one last thing about civicrm: we need tu update 17:10 < datendelphin> Zverik: is updating civicrm duty of the OWG as well? 17:11 < Zverik> datendelphin: yes, they do that occasionaly. But a reminder can help 17:11 < datendelphin> thanks 17:12 < Zverik> I'd prefer mwg email address to be on a osmfoundation.org domain/subdomain 17:13 < datendelphin> ok 17:14 < Stereo> Looks like Budget is the only remaining item? 17:14 < datendelphin> yes budget 17:14 < datendelphin> maybe a few Euros for alternative mail, but otherwise nothing 17:15 < datendelphin> I think most have already statet as much by mail 17:15 < Stereo> During the board campaign, there were talks of gadgets for members 17:15 < Stereo> Or to raise funds, really 17:15 < Stereo> Would that be a mwg item? 17:16 < datendelphin> increasing memberships is the topic I guess 17:16 < Mutter> I don't think we need an advertising budget 17:16 < Zverik> I remember a email thread about making cards (like business cards) for members 17:17 < Zverik> and though that maybe we could try that 17:17 < Mutter> Perhaps $1000 fund for memberships who cannot afford to pay 17:17 < Stereo> I think we can do much more than osmf pens, cards and hats - surveyor jackets, custom print posters and shirts... 17:17 < datendelphin> Mutter: I don't think we sould blow up the budget with this 17:18 < Stereo> But that's probably overstepping the bounds of the MWG 17:18 < Stereo> Don't we just waive the fees for such members? 17:18 < datendelphin> about jackets and stuff: that is serious work. If someone wants to do it, I would be iin favor. But I don't have the time and dedication for it 17:19 < Stereo> Definitely agree. 17:19 < Stereo> So the budget would be a few euros for email 17:19 < datendelphin> Yes this is the idea. We waive it and have a member, but no additional income. And we should not generate virtual income from them 17:20 < datendelphin> yes 17:20 < Mutter> I agree I was just throwing out an idea :) 17:20 < Stereo> Should we set aside 100€ for email? 17:21 < Mutter> I think that's fair 17:21 < Stereo> Good. I think that concludes our meeting? 17:22 < datendelphin> Any other business: 17:22 < Zverik> so, what amount did we agree on? 1000 €? 17:23 < datendelphin> I thought 100 17:23 < Zverik> I'd add 500 for if we decide on cards or such stuff 17:24 < datendelphin> ah yes, sure 17:25 < Stereo> Agreed 17:25 < datendelphin> AOB: should we be worried that we didn't get new bank statements in December and January? 17:25 < Zverik> too early for January, maybe Vivien was on holiday. 17:26 < datendelphin> no it would be November and December I think. 17:27 < Mutter> Take care guys and gals I have another meeting 17:27 -!- Mutter [~Mutter@126.96.36.199] has quit [Quit: Mutter: www.mutterirc.com] 17:28 < Zverik> datendelphin: Frederik is not online. Could you please verify that we haven't received statements for November, and ask him in mail? 17:28 < datendelphin> yes, will ask him 17:28 < Zverik> thanks 17:29 < datendelphin> anything else? 17:29 < Stereo> Thank you all very much then, and enjoy your evening 17:30 < Zverik> thanks everyone. Nice that the group is still going :) 17:30 < datendelphin> Thankyou, same to you :) 17:30 < datendelphin> bye 17:33 < Stereo> datendelphin: you did the last minutes so well, will you do them again this time? 17:34 < datendelphin> yes 17:36 < Stereo> Thank you!