Working Group Minutes/MWG 2017-02-01


  • Michael Spreng (datendelphin)
  • Jonathan Witcoski (Mutter)
  • Ilya Zverev (Zverik)
  • Guillaume Rischard (Stereo)

Open issues

  • bank transfer form
  • E-Mail rejected as spam on
  • Member self service area
  • Welcome message to new members

Last minutes

Minutes from 2016-12-07 accepted.

Welcome messages

When new members sign up, they should get a message as an introduction to the OSMF. It should enable them to find out how to get more involved in the OSMF, how the fees are used and how to communicate with other members. We aske the communications working group if they would provide us a with a nice text for this purpose

Missing membership renewal reminders

We were informed that some members did not get all of the appropriate renewal reminder mails. Investigating the issue shows that indeed, for some members not all reminders were sent. Civicrm should send these, and records the outgoing mails. It is unclear why some of the reminders were not sent. There are 6 reminders which are sent:

  • 1st reminder four weeks before membership ends
  • 2nd reminder two weeks before membership ends
  • 1st expiration notification one day after the membership ended
  • 2nd expiration notification one month after the membership ended
  • 3rd expiration notification three months after the membership ended
  • 4th expiration notification six months after the membership ended
  • 5th and final expiration notification ten months after the membership ended

Mostly the expiration notifications were the ones which were for unknown reasons not sent.

bank transfer form

We would like to install a plug in in the wiki to send the bank transfer form by mail to mwg@. Ask OWG to install this plug in.

E-Mail rejected as spam

We would like to offer an alternative address which should not filter out spam so aggressively. But it should still contain the domain. Ideally at a different mail provider.


500 Euros for member crads. 100Euros for Mail.


--- Wed Feb 01 2017
15:51 < Stereo> So are the minutes
15:51 < Stereo> of the previous one
16:03 < datendelphin> I propose a few topics:
16:03 -!- Mutter [~Mutter@] has joined #osmf-membership
16:03 < datendelphin> last minutes
16:03 < datendelphin> Hi Mutter 
16:03 < Mutter> Morning 
16:03 < datendelphin> missing reminders
16:03 < Mutter> This is jonathan witcoski
16:04 < datendelphin> Wordpress plug in for form to mail
16:05 < datendelphin> The welcome message
16:05 < datendelphin> Budget
16:05 < datendelphin> Update Civicrm
16:06 < Stereo> And E-Mail rejected as spam on
16:06 < Stereo> if that's ok with everyone
16:06 < Stereo> Hi Mutter 
16:06 < Mutter> Sounds good 
16:07 < datendelphin>  Any Other Business: no new Bank statements, Stere should be added to this page:
16:08 < datendelphin> ok, now I only wish Zverik would be available
16:08 < Stereo> Ah, I don't have edit rights on that
16:09 < Zverik> I'm here. Hi everyone
16:09 < Stereo> pnorman: you won't be joining us?
16:09 < datendelphin> Perfect :)
16:10 < Mutter> So first issue on the agenda is welcome message to new users
16:10 < datendelphin> No, first is last minutes :)
16:10 < Stereo> I move to approve the minutes. Good job.
16:11 < datendelphin> I vote to accept the last minutes 
16:11 < Zverik> Stereo: added you to the MWG page
16:11 < Stereo> Cheers Zverik 
16:12 < Zverik> Minutes are really good
16:12 < Mutter> I vote to accept them as well. Sorry for jumping ahead 
16:13 < Zverik> I haven't yet touched a "member self-service website", sorry
16:14 < datendelphin> has anyone done anything for the welcome messages? Like written a text?
16:14 < datendelphin> I havn't
16:14 < Stereo> I have the thing I send to locals here
16:15 < Stereo> Which I think I stole from simonpoole a long time ago, and adapted
16:15 < datendelphin> I have somithing similar for Switzerland.
16:15 < Zverik> maybe we could ask the CWG to write that
16:16 < Stereo> Basically, 1. Hello, congratulations on your first edits in X, and welcome
16:16 < datendelphin> oh, they are alive, true
16:16 < Stereo> 2. Here's how to get in touch with the local community: ML, forums, wiki, etc.
16:17 < datendelphin> Stereo: are you talking about a welcome message for new mappers, or one for new OSMF members?
16:17 < Stereo> 3. anything personalised, like better imagery, more sources
16:17 < Stereo> Ahh
16:17 < datendelphin> I think it was for OSMF
16:17 < Zverik> datendelphin: osmf
16:17 < Stereo> New mappers
16:17 < Stereo> Ok, ignore that
16:17 < Stereo> New osmf members then. Perfect.
16:18 < datendelphin> OK, so I will contact CWG then
16:18 < Stereo> Well it's similar maybe - welcome, here's the resources, here's how to get involved in working groups, here's, if relevant, your local chapter, thank you for your support
16:18 < Mutter> Anything about what the $$ you gave supports  (i.e. Servers, grants,)
16:19 < datendelphin> Yes it is, just a few different resources.
16:19 < Stereo> The best page I ever saw for that was
16:19 < Stereo> But maybe that's something for the osmf treasurer to look at.
16:19 < Stereo> We can link to the last financial report
16:20 < Mutter> Sounds good, are we going to write a rough draft then before passing off to CWG?
16:21 < Zverik> We don't have to, but we'd need a list of topics to touch
16:21 < Stereo> Is this too rough? :)
16:22 < datendelphin> Yes we can. Would Mutter be so inclined?
16:22 < Zverik> e.g. "ask your organization if they would like to support the OSM by becoming a corporate member"
16:23 < Stereo> I'll summarise: welcome, thank you for contributing, here's what we do with your money, here are the resources (ml, etc.), here are the working groups you can get involved in, here's the list of local chapters, thank you again for your support.
16:23 < Stereo> Ok I'll just make an etherpad
16:23 < Stereo>
16:24 < Zverik> thanks
16:24 < datendelphin> Next Topic?
16:25 < Mutter> Yes please
16:25 < Stereo> Wait
16:25 < Stereo> Are we all happy with the pad?
16:25 < Stereo> Who sends it to CWG?
16:27 < datendelphin> Yes it's good. You if you would like? Otherwise I will
16:27 < Mutter> Pad looks good 
16:28 < Stereo> I've added the expiration date and the corporate member plug
16:29 < Stereo> datendelphin: I'm on a weird wifi that doesn't like email, I'm happy if you do it.
16:29 < datendelphin> OK
16:30 < datendelphin> will do in the next few days. Next topic: missing reminders
16:31 < datendelphin> I have picked a few random accounts and observed, that all had both reminders sent
16:31 < Stereo> Can you please quickly remind us what this is about?
16:31 < datendelphin> do you get the mwg@ emails?
16:32 < Stereo> I do
16:32 < Mutter> Yes 
16:32 < Stereo> Is it about the people who said they hadn't received the reminder?
16:32 < datendelphin> There was one which informed us that his friend did not get the membership expiration notice
16:32 < datendelphin> exactly
16:33 < datendelphin> So that wasn't entierly true
16:33 < datendelphin> He got the first, but not the second
16:33 < datendelphin> More importantly, Civicrm should also send reminders after expiration
16:34 < Mutter> How often does this happen? I think we only get maybe 1 or 2 a year about this issue and it has to do more with whatever email client they use 
16:34 < datendelphin> which were not sent to him, and also other members
16:34 < datendelphin> It wasn't even recorded in civicrm, so I guess the problem is on our side
16:35 < datendelphin> And while I found no other instances of no sent warning before expiry, after the expiry it seems more common
16:35 < datendelphin> I have no idea why
16:35 < Stereo> This is the email Henk sends with "OSMF membership renewal notification
16:35 < Stereo> " in the subject, right?
16:36 < datendelphin> yes, but it wasn't sent by henk since some time, but by civicrm
16:36 < Stereo> Ah I see it's not Henk anymore
16:36 < Stereo> Yup
16:37 < Stereo> It has fallen through the cracks on my side too. "Oh, I'll deal with it whenever".
16:37 < Stereo> Can we have the expiration date in the subject?
16:37 < datendelphin> Zverik, you have some experience with civicrm?
16:38 < Stereo> "Guillaume, your OSMF membership will expire on 3 May" would be a better call to action
16:39 < Stereo> We can also throw parts of the welcome email in there - here's how your money gets spent, etc.
16:40 < datendelphin> I'm not sure, usually it doesn't get read anyway. Subjectline could be a good idea though
16:41 < Zverik> datendelphin: I have, though not much
16:41 < Zverik> mainly search for contacts and prolonging membership :)
16:41 < Zverik> I can find the templates
16:41 < Stereo> I know I've thought, when receiving calls for renewals from other organisations, "what are they doing with that money?"
16:41 < datendelphin> Where is it set up for the reminders? I havn't found that
16:42 < Stereo> Looking too
16:43 < Zverik> datendelphin: Administer → Communications → Message Templates → System Workflow → Membership
16:43 < Stereo> I don't have Administer
16:44 < Stereo> The date is already in the body
16:44 < Stereo> Should we change the subject now, and put some stuff from the welcome email when it comes back from CWG?
16:44 < Stereo> So at the next meeting
16:45 < datendelphin> we can perfectly do this between meetings. I would like to not drag it out too much
16:45 < Zverik> Stereo: made you an admin. Please don't break the join.osmf website :)
16:45 < Zverik> now you should see the Administer menu
16:46 < datendelphin> found it. So I would say include the date if possible. Votes against?
16:48 < Mutter> I'll allow it 
16:49 < Zverik> Please do
16:52 < Mutter> Next?
16:52 < datendelphin> Zverik I need a plugin installed on the join wiki for the form to mail functionality
16:53 < datendelphin> But I can't. Who can? Operation working group?
16:53 < datendelphin> It needs to be placed in the correct folder on the server
16:53 < Zverik> datendelphin: yes, the OWG
16:53 < Zverik> the dir is not writable, so we can't do it without them
16:53 < datendelphin> ok, so will contact OWG
16:54 < Stereo> Zverik: I'll do my best.
16:55 < datendelphin> Now about the spam issue. I asked the OWG, and they can't reasonably do anything, its plain google, no special restrictions they could weaken
16:56 < datendelphin> Now I could think of two ways to improve the situation.
16:57 < datendelphin> Make another mail adress which forwards to us with a reputable mail provider. For example is well regarded where I live
16:57 < datendelphin> Or we ask a local chapter to provide an alternative address
16:58 < Stereo> Google does drop forwards too
16:58 < Stereo> If I send an email from and forwards it, the SPF record won't match, and it'll get dropped
16:59 < Stereo> We could host the email for elsewhere, that way we're still on the right domain
16:59 < datendelphin> not if posteo does it correctly and readdresses it. Which I'm pretty sure they'll do
16:59 < Stereo> They rewrite the from address?
17:00 < datendelphin> yes. The SMTP MAIL FROM:
17:00 < datendelphin> not the body from
17:01 < Stereo> I think that'll get dropped
17:02 < datendelphin> Well technical aside, would we even consider that solution?
17:03 < Stereo>
17:03 < datendelphin> yes something like that
17:03 < datendelphin> als an alternative
17:03 < datendelphin> als=as
17:03 < Stereo> It'll look strange, especially to non-Germans. I'd prefer the second solution.
17:04 < Mutter> I agree as an uninformed American that looks like spam. Might as well be from
17:04 < datendelphin> that will look strange as well: or something like that
17:05 < Stereo> What about
17:05 < Stereo> or something
17:06 < datendelphin> maybe, but then we need another DNS entry. Don't know how much work is needed for that.
17:07 < datendelphin> it would only be for receiving mails, not sending. So the spam argument isn't so severe
17:07 < Stereo> A few records in the dns admin at bytemark, where the domain is hosted
17:08 < datendelphin> So we would need to annoy owg again
17:08 < Stereo> Yup.
17:09 < datendelphin> I'll have a look if posteo would support the subdomain variant.
17:09 < Stereo> That'd be good. One of the local chapters could also host it.
17:10 < Stereo> What do the other think? So to summarise:,,
17:10 < datendelphin> oh I forgot one last thing about civicrm: we need tu update
17:10 < datendelphin> Zverik: is updating civicrm duty of the OWG as well?
17:11 < Zverik> datendelphin: yes, they do that occasionaly. But a reminder can help
17:11 < datendelphin> thanks
17:12 < Zverik> I'd prefer mwg email address to be on a domain/subdomain
17:13 < datendelphin> ok
17:14 < Stereo> Looks like Budget is the only remaining item?
17:14 < datendelphin> yes budget
17:14 < datendelphin> maybe a few Euros for alternative mail, but otherwise nothing
17:15 < datendelphin> I think most have already statet as much by mail
17:15 < Stereo> During the board campaign, there were talks of gadgets for members
17:15 < Stereo> Or to raise funds, really
17:15 < Stereo> Would that be a mwg item?
17:16 < datendelphin> increasing memberships is the topic I guess
17:16 < Mutter> I don't think we need an advertising budget 
17:16 < Zverik> I remember a email thread about making cards (like business cards) for members
17:17 < Zverik> and though that maybe we could try that
17:17 < Mutter> Perhaps $1000 fund for memberships who cannot afford to pay 
17:17 < Stereo> I think we can do much more than osmf pens, cards and hats - surveyor jackets, custom print posters and shirts...
17:17 < datendelphin> Mutter: I don't think we sould blow up the budget with this
17:18 < Stereo> But that's probably overstepping the bounds of the MWG
17:18 < Stereo> Don't we just waive the fees for such members?
17:18 < datendelphin> about jackets and stuff: that is serious work. If someone wants to do it, I would be iin favor. But I don't have the time and dedication for it
17:19 < Stereo> Definitely agree.
17:19 < Stereo> So the budget would be a few euros for email
17:19 < datendelphin> Yes this is the idea. We waive it and have a member, but no additional income. And we should not generate virtual income from them
17:20 < datendelphin> yes
17:20 < Mutter> I agree I was just throwing out an idea :)
17:20 < Stereo> Should we set aside 100€ for email?
17:21 < Mutter> I think that's fair 
17:21 < Stereo> Good. I think that concludes our meeting?
17:22 < datendelphin> Any other business:
17:22 < Zverik> so, what amount did we agree on? 1000 €?
17:23 < datendelphin> I thought 100
17:23 < Zverik> I'd add 500 for if we decide on cards or such stuff
17:24 < datendelphin> ah yes, sure
17:25 < Stereo> Agreed
17:25 < datendelphin> AOB: should we be worried that we didn't get new bank statements in December and January?
17:25 < Zverik> too early for January, maybe Vivien was on holiday.
17:26 < datendelphin> no it would be November and December I think.
17:27 < Mutter> Take care guys and gals I have another meeting 
17:27 -!- Mutter [~Mutter@] has quit [Quit: Mutter:]
17:28 < Zverik> datendelphin: Frederik is not online. Could you please verify that we haven't received statements for November, and ask him in mail?
17:28 < datendelphin> yes, will ask him
17:28 < Zverik> thanks
17:29 < datendelphin> anything else?
17:29 < Stereo> Thank you all very much then, and enjoy your evening
17:30 < Zverik> thanks everyone. Nice that the group is still going :)
17:30 < datendelphin> Thankyou, same to you :)
17:30 < datendelphin> bye
17:33 < Stereo> datendelphin: you did the last minutes so well, will you do them again this time?
17:34 < datendelphin> yes
17:36 < Stereo> Thank you!